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 Post subject: Mé f(h)éin
PostPosted: Fri 19 Oct 2012 9:00 pm 
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Dia is Muire diaobh a chairde.

I'm always wondering and I've never been able to find and answer, is myself 'mé féin' or is there a seimhiú? And the same for 'tú f(h)éin', 'sé f(h)éin' and the rest of them? I know the seimhiú is often not written even though it's pronounced. Can anyone give me any clarification?

Please and thank you!


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 Post subject: Re: Mé f(h)éin
PostPosted: Fri 19 Oct 2012 9:08 pm 
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Áine Óir wrote:
Dia is Muire diaobh a chairde.

I'm always wondering and I've never been able to find and answer, is myself 'mé féin' or is there a seimhiú? And the same for 'tú f(h)éin', 'sé f(h)éin' and the rest of them? I know the seimhiú is often not written even though it's pronounced. Can anyone give me any clarification?

Please and thank you!

It's a dialectal thing. The simple answer is that it's never lenited in the CO (AFAIK! :D).


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 Post subject: Re: Mé f(h)éin
PostPosted: Fri 19 Oct 2012 10:00 pm 
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It is an interesting word.

Whether it's written as féin/fhéin it is pronounced as neither of them but as "HAIN".

Fhéin - doesn't give the HAIN sound as FH is silent.

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It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.

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 Post subject: Re: Mé f(h)éin
PostPosted: Sat 20 Oct 2012 12:15 am 
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I think féin is the historical spelling. It has been adopted in the CO.

The pronunciation has changed in some dialects and féin is now pronounced HAYN /he:n´/ (as if it were spelled héin) in Connamara and Donegal, but remains FAYN /f´e:n´/ (or sometimes féinig) in Munster.

The variant fhéin* is a misplaced attempt to represent the new pronunciation of HAYN /he:n´/, but as already mentioned, fh is silent so fhéin* = éin AYN, not HAYN.

If you want to represent the pronunciation HAYN /he:n´/, I recommend using héin instead, but "officially" only féin is recognised (so be prepared for plenty of people to tell you it's "wrong", as always. :rolleyes: )

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My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
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 Post subject: Re: Mé f(h)éin
PostPosted: Sat 20 Oct 2012 12:33 am 
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In Múscraí Irish, I've heard both féin and fhéin (pronounced "héin")

Does anybody happen to know the rule (for Munster Irish) of when to use féin and when to use fhéin? I've always wanted to know how that works :S


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 Post subject: Re: Mé f(h)éin
PostPosted: Sat 20 Oct 2012 12:44 am 
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WeeFalorieMan wrote:
In Múscraí Irish, I've heard both féin and fhéin (pronounced "héin")

Does anybody happen to know the rule (for Munster Irish) of when to use féin and when to use fhéin? I've always wanted to know how that works :S

As we said above, it should never be spelled "fhéin". An Teanga Bheo: Corca Dhuibhne uses héin:

An Teanga Bheo wrote:
Deirtear héinféin, m.sh. mi héin, mi féin.

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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 Post subject: Re: Mé f(h)éin
PostPosted: Sat 20 Oct 2012 5:17 am 
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Go raibh maith agat, a Bhreandáin! :good:


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 Post subject: Re: Mé f(h)éin
PostPosted: Mon 05 Nov 2012 10:45 pm 
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GRMA a Bhríd agus a Bhreandáin!

Is fadhb mhór é sin don bhfoghlaimeoir, an seimhiú invisible. Mar shampla, Dia duit seachas Dia dhuit. Tá neart samplaí eile nuair nach bhím cinnte an bhfuil gá don seimhiú nó nach bhfuil ach nílim in ann cuimhniú orthu anois!

Go raibh maith agaibh :)


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 Post subject: Re: Mé f(h)éin
PostPosted: Mon 05 Nov 2012 11:55 pm 
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Quote:
Is fadhb mhór é sin don bhfoghlaimeoir, an seimhiú invisible. Mar shampla, Dia duit seachas Dia dhuit. Tá neart samplaí eile nuair nach bhím cinnte an bhfuil gá don seimhiú nó nach bhfuil ach nílim in ann cuimhniú orthu anois!


Sin an fáth ar cheart scríobh de réir na gcanúinteach.
Má deir tú "Dia dhuit", scríobh "Dia dhuit". Má deir tú "Dia duit", scríobh "Dia duit" agus nach cuma fán chaighdeán oifigiúil.

Maidir le "féin", is eisceacht é, agus deireann chóir a bheith achan nduine "héin". Eisceacht a chaithfear a fhoghlaim. Ach níl mórán f-annaí a fhuaimníthear mar "h", mar sin níl sé ródheacair :)

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 Post subject: Re: Mé f(h)éin
PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov 2012 6:08 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:

Sin an fáth ar cheart scríobh de réir na gcanúinteach.
Má deir tú "Dia dhuit", scríobh "Dia dhuit". Má deir tú "Dia duit", scríobh "Dia duit" agus nach cuma fán chaighdeán oifigiúil.


Ara nach bhfuil mé go hainnis ar fad, ní raibh a fhios agam go rabhthas in ann 'Dia dhuit' a scríobh. Mallacht ar an gcaighdeán! GRMA a Lughaidh!


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