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PostPosted: Wed 25 Mar 2015 10:58 am 
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At the end of a word how does scots gaelic pronounce an "mh"
Taking meeting - cruinniamh

Connacht: crinn-a
Ulster: crinn-a
Munster: crinn-av
Scottish: ?


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PostPosted: Wed 25 Mar 2015 11:59 am 
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There's a typo in "cruinniamh", this word doesn't exist.
Actually meeting is cruinniú, pronounced /kriN'u:/ in Connachta and Ulster, and /krin'u:/ in Munster.

In Scots Gaelic you say "coinneamh" (which corresponds to "coinne" in Irish, an appointment) and it's pronounced /kʰɤN'əv/ or /kʰɤN'u/ etc according to the dialect.
Basically, final unstressed -amh in Scottish Gaelic is either /əv/ or /u/ depending on the dialect.

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PostPosted: Fri 27 Mar 2015 12:51 pm 
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I think there's typically a slight w-glide when the ending is "u". Not a strong one, just a slight closing of the mouth.

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PostPosted: Fri 27 Mar 2015 12:54 pm 
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The other thing to notice is that any "v" sound isn't really like an English V. The bottom lip doesn't curl in as much -- in English you're almost biting your lip, but in Gaelic, I think it stays in front of the teeth.

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PostPosted: Fri 08 Jan 2016 5:17 pm 
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Looks like there's two spambot accounts (previous two posts). Who should I report this to?

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PostPosted: Tue 12 Jan 2016 4:47 pm 
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NiallBeag wrote:
Looks like there's two spambot accounts (previous two posts). Who should I report this to?

I've deleted both posts.

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PostPosted: Wed 13 Jan 2016 8:55 pm 
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NiallBeag wrote:
The other thing to notice is that any "v" sound isn't really like an English V. The bottom lip doesn't curl in as much -- in English you're almost biting your lip, but in Gaelic, I think it stays in front of the teeth.


So would you say it's more akin to the soft Spanish ‘v’ sound, where it's formed by constricting but not closing the lips (with the teeth basically uninvolved in the actual production of the sound)?


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Jan 2016 11:33 am 
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idshanks wrote:
NiallBeag wrote:
The other thing to notice is that any "v" sound isn't really like an English V. The bottom lip doesn't curl in as much -- in English you're almost biting your lip, but in Gaelic, I think it stays in front of the teeth.


So would you say it's more akin to the soft Spanish ‘v’ sound, where it's formed by constricting but not closing the lips (with the teeth basically uninvolved in the actual production of the sound)?

In Barra it is. Elsewhere it seems to be like trying to say B with the bottom lip only -- ie without moving your top lip. If that makes sense.

Don't worry too much about it, but think of it this way: F and V in English are slightly more "toothy" and (depending on your accent) don't change N to M (infamy and invisible, vs impossible, imbalance and immaterial) whereas in Gaelic F is more "lippy" and changes certain Ns to M (am fear, am balach, am pàipear).

But i've probably just confused you now.

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PostPosted: Mon 18 Jan 2016 8:29 pm 
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NiallBeag wrote:
But i've probably just confused you now.


Not at all, that's an ideal description. The sounds that are most similar to English are the harder ones to nail because the smaller difference is much harder to pinpoint and articulate, versus sounds which are clearly different from English such as certain vowels. These kinds of descriptions are perfect. I've been using Blas na Gàidhlig for learning my pronunciation broadly before trying to fine-tune it to audio recordings, but this difference for example is something simply dismissed as being the same as in English which is particularly useful if you're shooting for accuracy. Thanks :)


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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jan 2016 12:39 pm 
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On a weird tangent, you've just reminded me of a conclusion I came to years ago -- that I don't pronounce words like "infamy" or "invisible" with either N or M, but with something that doesn't exist anywhere else in English -- I make the V/F shape with my lips, but apply the nasal quality of the N, then drop the nasalisation to pronounce the F or V and come out with something like "iṽvisible".

Funky.

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