It is currently Mon 12 Apr 2021 7:26 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon 01 Feb 2021 6:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed 15 Apr 2020 12:09 pm
Posts: 47
Beannachtaí a chairde,

Gaeilge le Eímear is my absolute favourite channel on YT.
https://www.youtube.com/GaeilgeleE%C3%ADmear

Videos in Irish with Irish language subtitles attached so we can read along.

Just good old day to day conversational stuff.

We have to get to the stage where people aren't constantly worrying about 'getting it wrong' and just speaking. Everywhere! Let's get proud. Fifty thousand determined speakers/students of the language breaking the intermediate plateau and creating content is all it will take to tip the balance.

It's lovely having so many channels for beginners but if those channels spend 95% of the time speaking in English and they don't have Irish language subtitles the viewer's progress will stagnate.

Please support people like Gaeilge le Eímear by liking her videos and subbing her channel...... these people are worth their weight in gold.

Slán go fóill.

P.s... Scríobh mé seo i mBéarla ar mhaithe le luas ach b'fhearr liom é a scríobh sa Ghaeilge.

_________________
Learning Irish with Asarlai YouTube channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzE0zcSQ2amwseJLpS7GnfQ


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 01 Feb 2021 9:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun 28 Aug 2011 8:29 pm
Posts: 2932
Gaeilge le Eímear -

Her pronunciation is awful.

We can’t recommend learning sources on this forum that are not up to standard.

We expect learners to make mistakes and to not have perfect pronunciation at first. Obviously they are welcome on this forum and we will try to help them improve. Yes go out there and speak Irish with whatever level you have achieved. But everybody should aim for correct pronunciation. Bad teaching sites online, youtube etc, confuse learners who don’t know the difference, in particular foreign learners who aren’t aware of the history of Irish in schools.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 01 Feb 2021 11:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed 15 Apr 2020 12:09 pm
Posts: 47
Bríd Mhór wrote:
Gaeilge le Eímear -

Her pronunciation is awful.

We can’t recommend learning sources on this forum that are not up to standard.

We expect learners to make mistakes and to not have perfect pronunciation at first. Obviously they are welcome on this forum and we will try to help them improve. Yes go out there and speak Irish with whatever level you have achieved. But everybody should aim for correct pronunciation. Bad teaching sites online, youtube etc, confuse learners who don’t know the difference, in particular foreign learners who aren’t aware of the history of Irish in schools.


I was just saying it's my favourite channel. I wasn't asking this site to include it as a resource.

The fact is, pronunciation is never set in stone. Look at how diverse spoken English is and has always been. All the regions of England have their own distinct dialect with every conceivable mixture in between as well as all the weird and not so wonderful ways it's spoken by the rest of the world. Of course, that's probably why it's so successful.

The Irish language doesn't belong in a jar.

I personally love Gaeilge le Eímear's passion for the language.... and right now that's what it needs.

It hurts me a bit you feel this way, Bríd.

But not to worry, I'll keep my posts to translation requests etc in future.

Cheers

_________________
Learning Irish with Asarlai YouTube channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzE0zcSQ2amwseJLpS7GnfQ


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue 02 Feb 2021 3:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon 01 Sep 2014 10:03 pm
Posts: 462
Location: SAM
Asarlaí wrote:

I was just saying it's my favourite channel. I wasn't asking this site to include it as a resource.

The fact is, pronunciation is never set in stone. Look at how diverse spoken English is and has always been. All the regions of England have their own distinct dialect with every conceivable mixture in between as well as all the weird and not so wonderful ways it's spoken by the rest of the world. Of course, that's probably why it's so successful.

The Irish language doesn't belong in a jar.

I personally love Gaeilge le Eímear's passion for the language.... and right now that's what it needs.

It hurts me a bit you feel this way, Bríd.

But not to worry, I'll keep my posts to translation requests etc in future.

Cheers


There's a difference between having native pronunciation and having learners' pronunciation that is awful. She doesn't have anything close to a native pronunciation, and just constantly uses the English sounds. This is a contentious issue among the learning community, sadly, as many seem to think that any pronunciation/idiom is okay, but, in general, I'd say we don't feel that way here (though it's a conversation worth having)

I also disagree with what the language needs. The language needs more focus on keeping native speech communities alive, where native idiom and pronunciation are used. It doesn't need passionate teachers who are incompetent teaching what is basically English with a few Irish-esque words. There's a difference between native and non-native pronunciation; we certainly need to be emphasizing the former. And 'passion' won't save Irish, especially if the Gaeltacht dies. That's where the only hope is.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue 02 Feb 2021 4:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2011 12:06 pm
Posts: 2411
I agree 100% with what Bríd an Galaxyrocker said.

Also I wonder how one can be "passionate" about a language and butcher it at the same time.
I've been passionate about Irish for 25 years and I do my best to speak like a native speaker, in pronunciation, grammar and everything... It wouldn't make sense to me to be in love with a language but not to bother about its basic sounds and grammar...

_________________
Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue 02 Feb 2021 5:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed 15 Apr 2020 12:09 pm
Posts: 47
I think you guys have got to accept that most who have learnt Irish through the school system will speak with a mixture of the dialects. And in fact, I personally think it's somewhat pretentious to try to speak like you're from a certain Gaeltacht if you're not. And that is especially true for foreign students.
It'd be like a Japanese person only wanting to learn and speak Cockney English.

The Official standard was created so Irish could have a central ground and be like all the other languages. And it goes to show what fragile ground some of you are on to have such a visceral reaction to an Irish teenager wanting to speak her native tongue.

Another thing of course is, who cares how good someone is at Irish grammar or that they've focused entirely on one particular Gaeltacht dialect if they have no people skills and are terrible optics for the promotion of the language.

The Irish language will not be saved by purity spiralling. I'm also learning Welsh and have not seen anything like this kind of attitude towards people wanting to learn and speak the language.... which again is why the Welsh language is now doing so well with over a half a million daily speakers.

Misery loves company, eh guys?

_________________
Learning Irish with Asarlai YouTube channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzE0zcSQ2amwseJLpS7GnfQ


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue 02 Feb 2021 11:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue 02 Feb 2021 10:33 pm
Posts: 1
most who have learnt Irish through the school system will speak with a mixture of the dialects

Most who have learnt through the school system, those who actually can speak some Irish after leaving it, are rarely educated on the dialects and speak not with a mix of dialectical pronounciations but with anglicised pronunciations which have no basis in the Gaelic phonetic system still in use in all native dialects of Gaelic.

The Lárchanúint was created as an attempt to rectify this problem (the standard not having a standard for pronounciation) but sadly it did not make any difference.



pretentious to try to speak like you're from a certain Gaeltacht if you're not. And that is especially true for foreign students

So if somebody from Cork learns French or Italian, they are pretentious for trying to use a French or Italian accent, or to mimick the stress, pronounciation and prosody of native speakers. They must speak Italian with their thick Cork accents to avoid being seen as pretentious in your eyes.



It'd be like a Japanese person only wanting to learn and speak Cockney English

No, it'd be like a Japanese person wanting to learn the English of native speakers instead of the English of Spaniards who learned English in school.



reaction to an Irish teenager wanting to speak her native tongue.

It's not a reaction to a teenager wanting to speak her native tongue, as she is a university graduate intending on being a primary teacher (and indeed already teaching online). I understand that the previous reactions may have seemed visceral, and I hope that if Eimear ever sees this she'll understand that those are expressions of frustration with a substandard college and education system and an 'any Irish is good Irish ideology' which she has been taken to represent at this time, unfair as that may seem.



who cares how good someone is at Irish grammar or that they've focused entirely on one particular Gaeltacht dialect if they have no people skills and are terrible optics for the promotion of the language

So forget grammar. Forget pronounciation. Forget about being educated on the living dialects. Don't worry about all that boring reading, listening and practice it takes to improve your language skills. Got people skills? Great! Get out there and promote the Irish language :good:




which again is why the Welsh language is now doing so well with over a half a million daily speakers

Welsh is in a healthier position because it began from a healthier position. A far larger percentage of the Welsh population were native Welsh speakers when they began their revival efforts. This led to there being a much greater percentage of native Welsh speaking teachers and students in the Welsh Medium schools, which probably helped them lessen some of the problems faced in Irish medium education (where principles are complaining of the difficulty of finding teachers with a high enough standard)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed 03 Feb 2021 1:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed 03 Feb 2021 1:31 am
Posts: 2
I think the main thing about learning any language is that one should strive to focus on native phonology, grammar, syntax and idioms. If we ignore the way natives speak then why try to learn that language? Clearly not to communicate with natives, it would seem.

It's especially unfortunate that this would be the case with minority languages where the language still survives in a living community of natives speakers, and learners then disconnecting themselves from the natives rather than trying to help keep the language alive where it truly counts, the Gaeltachaí.

If people claim to teach a minority language but don't make an attempt at utilising any of the native elements (phonology, idioms, etc.), they only contribute to hurting that minority language. One should never compare the Irish language with English, nor any other non-minority language, when the former is in danger of being completely replaced by the latter.

Having spoken to natives on the matter of pronunciation, they've made their feelings clear regarding "School Irish", and as a learner, I can respect those feelings and understand why they have them. If learners don't have the goal to make themselves understandable to natives, then what goal are they trying to achieve exactly?

Regarding "native tongues", a native tongue is the language you're born into and the tongue utilised by the everyday community you're brought up in. If one is learning another language, that language cannot be their native tongue, no matter their nationality nor geography. It's simply a matter of socio-linguistics. Languages don't have borders or nationalities, they have living native speaking communities. One can strive to learn from the natives and maybe, with good enough Irish, join and help expand their community.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed 03 Feb 2021 7:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun 28 Aug 2011 8:29 pm
Posts: 2932
The responses have been heartening. :good:

French was one of my favourite subjects at school. I was one of only two students who took Honours Course in it for my Leaving Cert (ok I’m bragging LOL). And still I finished school not being even close to fluency. But maybe I should set-up a YouTube channel about “Conamara French”, and how we speak it in Conamara. I’d be laughed at, and rightly so. I would love to speak French like a Frenchwoman/man, with the proper pronunciation, and the glides and abbreviated speech that natives use and is never taught in school.

There are some learners who do their best and still can’t wrap their tongues around some sounds, and that’s ok, the main thing is they tried their best. I know I’m never going to learn Xhosa, and I can’t do the LL Welsh sound when it’s in the middle or end of a word, but I’m not going to say to a Welsh person my way is better than yours. It’s the people who say they know it’s not correct and don’t care, that they’ve created their own dialect, that offends native speakers-that is so disrespectful .


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed 03 Feb 2021 4:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri 09 Sep 2011 2:06 pm
Posts: 635
An bhfuil nóisean agat don ógbhean Eímear, a Asarlaì? :D


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 89 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group