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 Post subject: Another word
PostPosted: Sun 04 Oct 2020 11:06 am 
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Location: 91 - France
The word is - stangaire buidhe - transcribed into English as - stongirya. (This comes from the story 'Paudyeen and the Weasel') In the notes on the Irish Text Nutt says that he thought it might mean a mean fellow, but he wasn't sure about it, in Dinneen, among other things, it's - one hard to deal with, and in the feminine - an obstinate woman. I'm looking for a single word in English (and French) that could express its meaning. - buidhe is of course an intensifyer.


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 Post subject: Re: Another word
PostPosted: Mon 05 Oct 2020 2:44 am 
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franc 91 wrote:
The word is - stangaire buidhe - transcribed into English as - stongirya. (This comes from the story 'Paudyeen and the Weasel') In the notes on the Irish Text Nutt says that he thought it might mean a mean fellow, but he wasn't sure about it, in Dinneen, among other things, it's - one hard to deal with, and in the feminine - an obstinate woman. I'm looking for a single word in English (and French) that could express its meaning. - buidhe is of course an intensifyer.


The dictionary definition

https://www.teanglann.ie/ga/fgb/stangaire

And the story

https://books.google.ie/books?id=kfTdZK ... ya&f=false


Well from that definition my first thought was to call him a "git" :D
And looking for a more formal word for "git" I found "reprobate", which sounds like it might fit the dictionary meaning. Somebody else might have a better word though.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... in-general


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 Post subject: Re: Another word
PostPosted: Wed 07 Oct 2020 4:07 pm 
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Go raibh maith agat a chara.

The version I am referring to here is from the original 1890 edition compiled by Douglas Hyde, who not only collected the original version in Irish but also translated it into English. It has additional notes at the end by Alfred Nutt, which I also referred to. It's available on Internet Archive from university libraries in Canada and the US - The National Library of Ireland are, as usual, conspicuous by their absence. Of course it's in sean-chló and in the old spelling and I also have the impression that he's kept it in the local dialect as well, which is as it should be. This particular story came from a Mr Lynch Blake living near Ballinrobe, Co. Mayo, who even took the trouble of writing it down phonetically especially for him. Douglas Hyde graciously allowed Joseph Jacobs to reprint the English version of the story in his book Celtic Fairy Tales. In fact Jacobs had taken folktales from various other published works, he didn't have any Irish and as far as I can gather, he didn't do any collecting in Ireland. In the very informative preface to 'Beside the Fire', Douglas Hyde gives some idea of what he thought about those who had collected folktales before his time, again not having any Irish. Here's another example, I recently managed to buy 'The Irish Storyteller' by the Swiss Georges Denis Zimmermann. Although it is an interesting read, it's mainly about works published in English, so he too has had to admit to having very little Irish, which raises the obvious question - why didn't he get together with someone who does and also happens to be an expert in the field and then they might have co-authored the book ? There are quite a few of them, don't you know. The cover has a beautiful photograph entitled 'Storyteller and children, Cathair Scoilbín, Corca Dhuibhne, Co. Kerry' probably a newspaper photograph from 1934, used by kind permission of the Department of Irish Studies, University College, Dublin. - sadly we don't know his name and the chances are that he didn't have much English, so even if Georges Denis Zimmermann had had the unlikely possibilty of meeting him, Zimmermann would have been in a similar situation to that of a Jeremiah Curtin surrounded by a bevy of would-be translators hoping for a bob or two. Does anyone up in Donegal today have any vague memories of 'Fair, Brown and Trembling' in Irish ?


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 Post subject: Re: Another word
PostPosted: Wed 07 Oct 2020 5:48 pm 
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In the old days we had so many heroes and statesmen, both culturally and politically, like Hyde. Something today's Ireland is very much lacking sadly.


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 Post subject: Re: Another word
PostPosted: Sat 17 Oct 2020 9:57 am 
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And here's another word - mulach - which Hyde translates as - black mud. It's not in Dinneen with this meaning nor on Teanglann. The only word that I have found that would seem to be related to it is - muclach - a mucker or pig muck.


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 Post subject: Re: Another word
PostPosted: Sat 17 Oct 2020 11:20 am 
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franc 91 wrote:
And here's another word - mulach - which Hyde translates as - black mud. It's not in Dinneen with this meaning nor on Teanglann. The only word that I have found that would seem to be related to it is - muclach - a mucker or pig muck.


It mightn't help but maybe if we had it in a sentence.


If you add an extra L you have mullach. But that doesn't mean mud either but a summit. And summits aren't usually muddy.


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 Post subject: Re: Another word
PostPosted: Sat 17 Oct 2020 12:02 pm 
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Mais bien sûr, ma très chère Brigitte, voici le texte -

Nuair tháinig sé chomh fada leis an áit
ar chuir an madadh an easóg ann san bpoll,
tháinig sí amach roimhe, thug léim suas,
agus fuair greim sgornaigh air an g-capall.
Thosuigh an capall ag rith,
agus níor fheud Páidín a cheapadh,
no go dtug sé léim asteach i g-clais mhóir
a bhí líonta d'uisge agus de mhúlach.

I have changed Hyde's translation slightly to conform more closely to the Irish text. I'm not at all criticising the way he's done it, of course he's a master translator, but it is fair to say that he has added to what is in the Irish version to create a narrative that sounds better in English.

When he came to the place
that the dog had routed the weasel into the hole,
she came out before him, gave a leap up
and caught by the throat the horse.
The horse began to run
and Paudyeen could not stop (him),
till he gave a leap into a big drain
that was full of water and black mud.


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 Post subject: Re: Another word
PostPosted: Sat 17 Oct 2020 1:28 pm 
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múnlach, b’fhéidir? (sewage)

btw: Google Translate translates múlach as mucus.


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 Post subject: Re: Another word
PostPosted: Sat 17 Oct 2020 2:55 pm 
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Go raibh maith agat.

It goes on like this (aren't you all nearly dying to know just as Paudyeen was ;) )

Bhí sé 'gá bháthadh agus 'gá thachtadh go luath,
go tháinig fir suas a bhí teacht ar Gaillimh
agus dhíbhir siad an easóg.

.....and the cailleach/easóg does even worse things later on......!


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 Post subject: Re: Another word
PostPosted: Sat 17 Oct 2020 5:27 pm 
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And then there's this -

Air maidin, lá air na mhárach, d'éirigh Páidín go moch, agus chuaidh sé amach le uisge agus féar thabhairt do'n chapall.

which he translates as -

Next morning, the day on the morrow, Paudyeen rose up early and went out to give his horse hay and oats.

I suppose that he thought that - hay and oats - sounded better than - water and hay, but shouldn't it be - le huisge ? or perhaps that's what they say in Mayo.


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