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PostPosted: Sat 18 Apr 2020 12:32 pm 
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D’éisteas le hamhrán Sciobairín le Muireann Nic Amhlaoibh (agus, sílim ar ghuth eile ann, le Séamus Ó Beaglaoich?) agus táim ag iarraidh focail an amhráin sin a thras-scríobh. Fuaireas focail Béarla an amhráin. N’fheadar an aistriúchán nua-aimseartha go Gaelainn na focail sin nó na focail bunaidh iad a haistríodh go Béarla.

I am trying to transcribe lyrics of the song Sciobairín by Muireann Nic Amhlaoibh (and, judging by the voice, Séamus Ó Beaglaoich?). I’ve found the English version of the song. Not sure if the Irish lyrics are modern translation, or it’s the other way around.

Níl agam ach blúiríní beaga (agus go leor earráidí, is dócha) go dtí seo:
I have only bits and pieces (and probably lots of errors) thus far:

0:11: A athair dhil¹, is minic a bhís ag trácht ar Éire² liom
Saor a [… some gur dheas in there? ]

0:38: gach [áit?] den Oileán úd
cad é an fáth nach ann atáir, a athair, [oileán úd³?]

0:57: A mhic, a stór, bhí grá thar meón⁴ agamsa féin don tír
Ach thit an drochshaol?⁵, [a rúin?,] mo bhrón
1:15: Is fágadh sinn [gan díon ?]
[ní raibh? níor mhaith?] againn bó ná caoire [… ?]
1:25: Is sinn bocht, talamh fén gcíos
1:31: Sin é an fáth, a mhic, mo ghrá, gur thréigeas an Sciobairín

[…]
2:06: Amach gan trua is i sneachta fuar
Do caitheadh sinn […]

2:48: Is dhá bhliain d’aois, a mhic, a bhís
Ní cuimhin leat pioc den scéal
do mháthair féin ag […?]
3:13: a bhuachaill chóir, i lár na […]
3:21: Is sin é an fáth, a mhic, mo ghrá, gur thréigeas an Sciobairín

3:34: A athair [dhil?], ’s a ghrá mo chroí, ní [stadfadsa?] go deo
[…]
3:57: [Beadsa …] is os mo chionn an brat go buan [sa chaoi?]
[…]

¹ not sure what’s the adjective here, ghil seems to me to fit best in the context, but I rather here something like *phionn?
² I would rather expect Éirinn in Munster, especially in dative, but I clearly hear Éire being sung
³ if oileán úd, why not an t-oileán?
⁴ from corkirish dictionary: T(h)ar meón, beyond measure, exceedingly. Note: this is a variant of ⇒meán, but generally found as meón in the meaning shown.
⁵ or so I think, honestly I hear something like drochcheo there

Táim ag súil go gcabhróidh duine éigin is fearr ná mise le tuiscint na Gaelainne labhartha. :)
I hope somebody better at understanding Irish from hearing will help me. :)

Also, any corrections to my Irish welcome. :)


Last edited by silmeth on Sat 18 Apr 2020 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat 18 Apr 2020 5:50 pm 
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silmeth wrote:
D’éisteas le hamhrán Sciobairín le Muireann Nic Amhlaoibh (agus, sílim ar ghuth eile ann, le Séamus Ó Beaglaoich?) agus táim ag iarraidh focail an amhráin sin a thras-scríobh. Fuaireas na focail Béarla an amhráin. N’fheadar an aistriúchán nua-aimseartha go Gaelainn na focail sin nó na focail bunaidh iad a haistríodh go Béarla.

I am trying to transcribe lyrics of the song Sciobairín by Muireann Nic Amhlaoibh (and, judging by the voice, Séamus Ó Beaglaoich?). I’ve found the English version of the song. Not sure if the Irish lyrics are modern translation, or it’s the other way around.

Níl agam ach blúiríní beaga (agus go leor earráidí, is dócha) go dtí seo:
I have only bits and pieces (and probably lots of errors) thus far:

0:11: A athair dhil¹, is minic a bhís ag trácht ar Éire² liom
Saor a [… some gur dheas in there? ]

0:38: gach [áit?] den Oileán úd
cad é an fáth nach ann atáir, a athair, [oileán úd³?]

0:57: A mhic, a stór, bhí grá thar meón⁴ agamsa féin don tír
Ach thit an drochshaol?⁵, [a rúin?,] mo bhrón
1:15: Is fágadh sinn [gan díon ?]
[ní raibh? níor mhaith?] againn bó ná caoire [… ?]
1:25: Is sinn bocht, talamh fén gcíos
1:31: Sin é an fáth, a mhic, mo ghrá, gur thréigeas an Sciobairín

[…]
2:06: Amach gan trua is i sneachta fuar
Do caitheadh sinn […]

2:48: Is dhá bhliain d’aois, a mhic, a bhís
Ní cuimhin leat pioc den scéal
do mháthair féin ag […?]
3:13: a bhuachaill chóir, i lár na […]
3:21: Is sin é an fáth, a mhic, mo ghrá, gur thréigeas an Sciobairín

3:34: A athair [dhil?], ’s a ghrá mo chroí, ní [stadfadsa?] go deo
[…]
3:57: [Beadsa …] is os mo chionn an brat go buan [sa chaoi?]
[…]

¹ not sure what’s the adjective here, ghil seems to me to fit best in the context, but I rather here something like *phionn?
² I would rather expect Éirinn in Munster, especially in dative, but I clearly hear Éire being sung
³ if oileán úd, why not an t-oileán?
⁴ from corkirish dictionary: T(h)ar meón, beyond measure, exceedingly. Note: this is a variant of ⇒meán, but generally found as meón in the meaning shown.
⁵ or so I think, honestly I hear something like drochcheo there

Táim ag súil go gcabhróidh duine éigin is fearr ná mise le tuiscint na Gaelainne labhartha. :)
I hope somebody better at understanding Irish from hearing will help me. :)

Also, any corrections to my Irish welcome. :)



Could you write the whole song as you have it?
So far I can't find it online, which is surprising. Usually if you add a line from the song somebody has uploaded it.

Ok this is not my dialect, so I could be a hundred percent wrong. But this is how I hear it:

0.11 A athair mhín...

0:38 athair álainn

0.57 a mhic a stór bhí grá thar meoin agamsa féin dom thír
ach thit an drochthreo a rinne mo bhrón
is fagadh sinn gan díon
níor mhair againn bó ná caora i gcró
is sinn bocht .... dealamh ?...faoin gcíos
sin é an fáth a mhic mo ghrá a thréigeas an Sciobairín


2:06 ariamh ???


2:48 Is dhá bhliain d’aois, a mhic, a bhís
Ní cuimhin leat pioc den scéal
do mháthair a chaoin go goimh cois claí
go bhailais chum tú féin - she gathered you to her [chest]

3:13: fén c.....a bhuachaill chóir, i lár na hoíche d..
3:21: Is sin é an fáth, a mhic, mo ghrá, gur thréigeas an Sciobairín


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Apr 2020 7:38 pm 
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Bríd Mhór wrote:
Could you write the whole song as you have it?

So far I can't find it online, which is surprising. Usually if you add a line from the song somebody has uploaded it.


What I posted is basically all I have (all I could with any confidence transcribe from hearing). I couldn’t find any part of the lyrics online either (besides the English version). I wonder if it might be a recent translation to Munster Irish (since the recording’s been published in 2017), but then it seems to me to use much more Munster forms than I would expect from somebody writing today. But then, I am no expert.

Bríd wrote:
níor mhair againn bó ná caora i gcró
is sinn bocht .... dealamh ?...faoin gcíos


GRMA! This makes sense finally (bocht dealbh = poor, bare) :). I don’t know now how come I couldn’t hear níor mhair… there before.

Bríd wrote:
2:06 ariamh ???

Perhaps… I hear something like do ré there though and cannot think of anything making sense.

Bríd wrote:
do mháthair a chaoin go goimh cois claí
go bhailais chum tú féin - she gathered you to her [chest]

What would go goimh mean here?
I think it’d be rather do bhailíos chúm tú féin – I gathered you to myself, if that makes sense, or from your mother mentioned just before?
And then I think it’s fém’ chóta mór ‘under my big coat’ directly corresponding to the English verse So I wrapped you in my cóta mór at the dead of night unseen.
EDIT: so together: do bhailíos chúm tú féin fém’ chóta mór i lár na hoíche d… I gathered you under my big coat in the middle of a […] night.

Thank you, that helps a lot! :GRMA: I filled some gaps, will look at it tomorrow again, maybe I’ll be able to figure out a few verses more now. :)


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Apr 2020 8:36 pm 
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go goimh - bitter, stinging

she cried bitterly, stinging tears


I'll give it another go tomorrow too.
And I'm sure there are other people here that will do a better job than me. Especially those familiar with those dialects.


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PostPosted: Sun 19 Apr 2020 2:20 pm 
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Here are some English lyrics to an English version. Is this the same song?
Anyway, I hope this helps.

O, father dear I oft times hear you speak of Erin's Isle
Her lofty scenes, her valleys green, her mountains rude and wild
They say it is a lovely land wherein a prince might dwell
So why did you abandon it, the reason to me tell

My son, I loved my native land with energy and pride
Till a blight came over all my crops and my sheep and cattle died
The rents and taxes were to pay and I could not them redeem
And that's the cruel reason why I left old Skibbereen

'Tis well I do remember that bleak November (/December) day
When the bailiff and the landlord came to drive us all away
They set the roof on fire with their cursed English spleen
And that's another reason why I left old Skibbereen

Your mother, too, God rest her soul, lay on the snowy ground
She fainted in her anguishing seeing the desolation round
She never rose, but passed away from life to immortal dreams
And that's another reason why I left old Skibbereen

Then sadly I recall the days of gloomy forty-eight.
I rose in vengeance with the boys to battle again' fate.
We were hunted through the mountains as traitors to the queen,
And that, my boy, is the reason why I left old Skibbereen.

Oh you were only two years old and feeble was your frame
I could not leave you with my friends for you bore your father's name
So I wrapped you in my cóta mór at the dead of night unseen
And I heaved a sigh and I said goodbye to dear old Skibbereen

well father dear, the day will come when on vengeance we will call
And Irishmen both stout and tall will rally unto the call
I'll be the man to lead the van beneath the flag of green
And loud and high we'll raise the cry, "Revenge for Skibbereen!"


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PostPosted: Sun 19 Apr 2020 5:55 pm 
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tiomluasocein wrote:
Here are some English lyrics to an English version. Is this the same song?

Yes, there are a few versions of the English lyrics around the web, I linked the ones on Wikisource in my first post. I’ve some other similar ones with single words different, but no Irish lyrics.

I don’t have much more, but after filling a bit more, this is where I’m now (probably even more errors after my additions :mrgreen:):

0:11: A athair mhín, is minic a bhís ag trácht ar Éire liom
Saor […?], [rí oileán í she’s a king of islands?], gur dheas …
gur dheas a …
0:38: Gach [fóid?] den Oileán úd [… of every piece/place of that Island?]
Cad é an fáth nach ann atáir, a athair álainn, tú?

A mhic, a stór, bhí grá thar meón agamsa féin dom’ thír
Ach thit an droch[shaol? threo?], [a rinne? a rúin,?] mo bhrón [instead of ‘a rinne’ I’d expect ‘a dhein’ in Munster]
1:15: Is fágadh sinn gan díon
Níor mhair againn bó ná caoire i gcró
1:25: Is sinn bocht dealbh fén gcíos
1:31: Sin é an fáth, a mhic, mo ghrá, gur thréigeas an Sciobairín

[…]
1:50: do tháinig an […]
[ná báille?] [… roimh ré]
is […] gan chroí
2:06: Amach gan trua is i [or: sa?] sneachta fuar (but I’d expect ‘sa tsneachta’ in Munster, hence ‘is i sneachta’)
Do caitheadh sinn [ariamh? de réir?]
[…]

2:48: Is dhá bhliain d’aois, a mhic, a bhís
Ní cuimhin leat pioc den scéal
Do mháthair a chaoin go goimh cois claí
Do bhailíos chúm tú féin
Fém’ chóta mór, a bhuachaill chóir, i lár na hoíche duibhe
Is sin é an fáth, a mhic, mo ghrá, gur thréigeas an Sciobairín

3:34: A athair […], ’s a ghrá mo chroí, ní [stadfadsa?] go deo
gan […], gan … bhfuar?
ar bhánta […]
3:57: [Beadsa …] is os mo chionn an brat go buan [sa chaoi?]
4:08: is […] gáir na nGaeil go hard
go nd[…]ar Sciobairín


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PostPosted: Sun 27 Dec 2020 11:40 pm 
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I gave it another shot. Not that this is perfect either.

a athair chaoin is minic a bhís ag trácht ar Éire liom
is a fhag an tír álainn aoibh’ (í) gur dheas a rímse i gló??
gur dheas thar barr i dtír (idir) gcloic is ord/ard gach áit don oileán úd ??
caide an fáth nach ann atáir a athair álainn umhal

A mhic a stor bhí grá thar meoin agamsa féin dom thír
ach thit an drochcheo a rinn mo bhrón
is fagadh sinn gan díon
níor mhair againn bó ná caoire i gcró
is sinn bocht dealamh fén gcíos
sin é an fáth a mhic mo ghrá gur thréigeas An Sciobairín

Is fírínne é lá greimhridh fiain do tháing an lámh bréan
na báille claoi in am an bhreigh
lucht piláir gan chroí
amach gan trua sa tsneachta fuar
do caitheamh sinn i ré
ar dtig gan maoill trí thine do bhí i cath lár an lae

is dhá bhliain d’aois a mhic a bhíos
ní cuimhin leat pioc don scéal
do mháthair a chaoin i goimh cois claí
do bhailis chúm tú féin
faoin chóta mór a bhuachaill chóir
i lár na hoíche duibhe
is sin an fáth a mhic mo ghrá do thréigeas An Sciobairín

A athair chaoin is a ghrá mo chroí
níor stadfadsa ann go deo
go mbaistfear fuil an chaithair mhóir
ar bhanntá Inis Bhig
beadsa suas os mo chomhair an brat go buan sa n-oích
is cloisfear guth na Gael go hard ??A Sciobairín


Maybe if other people could give it a listen we'd get it perfect.

https://open.spotify.com/track/4WZ8Iqf8 ... GHs7GESkbA


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PostPosted: Tue 29 Dec 2020 2:55 pm 
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Míle buíochas arís ar ais!

With your recent version and the pieces I gathered, I asked for help on Celtic Languages Discord and people there helped fill some more blanks. What I have now looks like this (and I think, mostly even makes sense :mrgreen:!)

A athair chaoin, is minic a bhís ag trácht ar Éire¹ liom
’S ag rá gur tír álainn í, gur dheas a réim ’s a clú
Gur dheas thar barr idir [cnoc?] is ard
Gach [pairt? áit? faid?] den Oileán úd
Caidé an fáth nach ann atáir, a athair álainn umhal

A mhic, a stór, bhí grá thar meon² agamsa féin dom’ thír
Ach thit an drochcheo [a rinne?] mo bhrón
Is fágadh sinn gan díon
Níor mhair againn bó ná caoire i gcró
Is sinn bocht dealbh fén gcíos
Sin é an fáth, a mhic, mo ghrá, gur thréigeas an Sciobairín

Is fénár ndéin lá geimhridh fiáin do tháinig an lucht bréan
[ná] báille claoi [… lá] roimh ré
Is lucht piléar gan chroí
Amach gan trua sa tsneachta³ fuar
Do caitheadh sinn [aréir?]
Ár dtigh gan mhaoil tré thine a bhí acu i lár an lae

Is dhá bhliain d’aois, a mhic, a bhís, ní cuimhin leat pioc den scéal
Do mháthair a chaoin [go goimh?] cois claí
Do bhailíos chúm tú féin
Fém’ chóta mór, a bhuachaill chóir,
I lár na hoíche duibhe
Is sin é an fáth, a mhic, mo ghrá, gur thréigeas an Sciobairín

A athair chaoin, ’s a ghrá mo chroí, ní stadfadsa ann go deo
Go gcloisfear fuaim an chatha mhóir
Ar bhántaibh Inis [Bhig? Fraoigh?]
Beadsa suas (is?) os mo chomhair an brat go buan sa ghaoith
Is cloisfear gáir na nGael go hard
Cuimhnigh ar Sciobairín!


¹ Instead of expected dative Éirinn
² CO. thar meán, tar meadhón in seanachló eg. in Dineen
³ actually sung sa sneachta but should be sa tsneachta


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PostPosted: Tue 29 Dec 2020 10:08 pm 
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That's brilliant Silmeth. I think we have most of it now. And hearing what you wrote I can see you're correct. Just a few comments:

gur dheas a réim ’s a clú = It doesn't sound like "clú" to me but then maybe that is the Munster pronunciation and the word makes sense.

Gach pháirt den Oileán úd = I think you're right it's "pháirt".

Do caitheadh sinn [aréir?] = It does sound like that but "aréir" doesn't make sense as he's telling the story of what happened years ago.
TEANGLANN "ré2, f. (gs. ~, pl. ~ite). Stretch of ground; level ground."

Ár dtigh gan mhaoil tré thine a bhí acu i lár an lae =ACU ! of course, that pronunciation threw me.

I think it's "Inis Bhig".

Cuimhnigh ar Sciobairín! = Another pronunciation I should've expected, with the Munster "nig" ending.


It's easier to understand the man singing.


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PostPosted: Wed 30 Dec 2020 12:41 pm 
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Bríd Mhór wrote:
gur dheas a réim ’s a clú = It doesn't sound like "clú" to me but then maybe that is the Munster pronunciation and the word makes sense.

Maybe a cló ‘her form, appearance’?

Bríd Mhór wrote:
Gach pháirt den Oileán úd = I think you're right it's "pháirt".

The only problem – why would it be lenited here?

Bríd Mhór wrote:
Do caitheadh sinn [aréir?] = It does sound like that but "aréir" doesn't make sense as he's telling the story of what happened years ago.
TEANGLANN "ré2, f. (gs. ~, pl. ~ite). Stretch of ground; level ground."

Hmm, also corkirish blog dictionary also has réidh, f. (…) moorland, heather plain.
So it would be something like amach (…) sa tsneachta fuar (…) do ré ‘out, into cold snow, into the plain, ground’? That could make sense, I guess.

Bríd Mhór wrote:
Ár dtigh gan mhaoil tré thine a bhí acu i lár an lae =ACU ! of course, that pronunciation threw me.

My reaction exactly. :D (Actually at one point I heard acu there… but in some mental eclipse I couldn’t see it makes sense and I abandoned the idea – until someone else pointed acu to me).

Bríd Mhór wrote:
I think it's "Inis Bhig".

EDIT: I would guess it should be some place in West Cork, near Sciobairín itself… After looking at tge map, maybe Inis Píc (Spanish Island) – it’s a little one but closest in proximity.

Bríd Mhór wrote:
It's easier to understand the man singing.

Agreed. I could get a gist of most of his verses, but have been able to guess but a few words of Muireann’s ones.


Last edited by silmeth on Wed 30 Dec 2020 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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