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 Post subject: Geoffrey as gaeilge
PostPosted: Mon 25 Nov 2019 10:10 am 
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1. Seafraidh (Geoffrey)
2. Siofraidh (Geoffrey)
3. Séafra (Geoffrey)
4. Seathrún (Geoffrey)
5. Séathrún (Geoffrey)

This relates to a choice of baby name. All of the above appear in Rev Patrick Woulfe’s ‘Irish Names and Surnames’ from 1923. That’s how they are spelt there.

Is no. 1 spelt correctly without a fada?

Are 1, 2 or 3 pronounced differently?

Go raibh maith agat.


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 Post subject: Re: Geoffrey as gaeilge
PostPosted: Mon 25 Nov 2019 9:37 pm 
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For 1, after a look over the Internet, it seems without fada is more common.

The following site shows some older forms of the name:

http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsI ... raid.shtml

The headword has fada but few of the entries do, possibly because of usage in the older language.

1, 2, and 3 are pronounced differently with some variations between dialects (these explanations are all approximations):

1. Without fada, the first syllable SHOULD sound like "sha" in "shack" (although it could be pronounced as if it had fada >; with fada, like "shay" as in "shake" or "she-" in "shelf" or somewhere in between.
"-fraidh" sounds close to "fray" or "fri" as in "fridge" with a light "g" at the end. Sometimes you can't even hear the final "g".

2. "sio-" can be either "shoo-" as in "shook" or like "shoe" (Conamara).

3. "shay" (as in "shake") and "fra" as in "frolick".

Listen: https://forvo.com/word/s%C3%A9afra/#ga

Wait for more input. Maybe someone else here (Bríd) can do some sound files for you. I have no idea how to do this.

Good luck!


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 Post subject: Re: Geoffrey as gaeilge
PostPosted: Tue 26 Nov 2019 10:35 pm 
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I'd recommend Seathrún. I think it's the most common form used.
Like the famous poet - Geoffrey Keating (Seathrún Céitinn)

https://forvo.com/word/seathr%C3%BAn/#ga

Edit: Ok there's a broken link because of the fada. Copy and paste the name into Forvo and you will find it.


Last edited by Breandán on Wed 04 Dec 2019 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Edited to fix broken link. Breandán


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 Post subject: Re: Geoffrey as gaeilge
PostPosted: Fri 29 Nov 2019 2:45 am 
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Bríd Mhór wrote:
I'd recommend Seathrún. I think it's the most common form used.
Like the famous poet - Geoffrey Keating (Seathrún Céitinn)

https://forvo.com/word/seathrún/#ga

Edit: Ok there's a broken link because of the fada. Copy and paste the name into Forvo and you will find it.


:good:


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 Post subject: Re: Geoffrey as gaeilge
PostPosted: Fri 29 Nov 2019 11:01 am 
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Thanks TiomL for taking the time to go through the pronounciations. And for the link to the Anals analysis. It turns out, it seems, that there are even more variations of the name than the 5 that I listed. The analysis of the Anals does leave open the question of whether variation 1 in my list, Seafraidh, should have a fada or not. I think I prefer the pronunciation with the fada but agree that without it seems more common.

As is often the case with baby names, there’s a sentimental aspect to the choice. Variation 1 is the Irish version of the name of the expected baby’s grandfather. That’s what he went by when he spent a year in the Ring Gaeltacht in the 1940s. For that reason, the more common version might not be as preferred here Bird. Though I’ve also heard the grandfather referred to by variation 2, Siofraidh.

Fadas are sometimes awkward in the modern world TiomL. Your broken link underlines the point. That’s been my experience with computers translating letters with fadas into characters that look like Chinese characters. For many years, I was well able to type a fada on a computer. But then I moved country and bought an iPad and have never managed to type a fada since. To copy and paste a fada is all I’ve managed to do. No doubt there’s a solution, but I’m not that techy and haven’t spent very much time trying to find it. I just tried google. That failed and I gave up.

Thanks again both of you.


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 Post subject: Re: Geoffrey as gaeilge
PostPosted: Sat 30 Nov 2019 3:14 am 
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Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2011 11:36 pm
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Malawi wrote:
Thanks TiomL for taking the time to go through the pronounciations. And for the link to the Anals analysis. It turns out, it seems, that there are even more variations of the name than the 5 that I listed. The analysis of the Anals does leave open the question of whether variation 1 in my list, Seafraidh, should have a fada or not. I think I prefer the pronunciation with the fada but agree that without it seems more common.

As is often the case with baby names, there’s a sentimental aspect to the choice. Variation 1 is the Irish version of the name of the expected baby’s grandfather. That’s what he went by when he spent a year in the Ring Gaeltacht in the 1940s. For that reason, the more common version might not be as preferred here Bird. Though I’ve also heard the grandfather referred to by variation 2, Siofraidh.

Fadas are sometimes awkward in the modern world TiomL. Your broken link underlines the point. That’s been my experience with computers translating letters with fadas into characters that look like Chinese characters. For many years, I was well able to type a fada on a computer. But then I moved country and bought an iPad and have never managed to type a fada since. To copy and paste a fada is all I’ve managed to do. No doubt there’s a solution, but I’m not that techy and haven’t spent very much time trying to find it. I just tried google. That failed and I gave up.

Thanks again both of you.


I always like Bríd's opinion because it is current from a native speaker. But that doesn't mean you can't explore a bit. I was going to tell you simply pronounce it like Geoffrey but with an "sh" at the beginning. :darklaugh: Sheoffrey . . . But we like to explore and find out new things.

Most names have so many variations. Like Helen. Look up all the permutations of that one!


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 Post subject: Re: Geoffrey as gaeilge
PostPosted: Sat 30 Nov 2019 7:33 pm 
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As you probably know the spelling was standardised in the 1950s.
So now you often get a pronunciation that has no connection to the spelling. In some dialects the fada will be pronounced and in others it won't be. For example:
Mícheál - in Munster
Micheál - in Conamara

You need an expert on the Kerry dialect to tell you if the fada is pronounced in a particular region.


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