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 Post subject: Re: Proofing for Website
PostPosted: Fri 25 Jan 2019 9:22 pm 
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Thanks very much for your input. I've already updated the site with some of your suggestions.

I've a few questions before I make more changes.

Errigal wrote:
- 'coinnithe': Unless you mean "kept, held", I don't think 'coinnigh' is the right verb. 'An Foclóir Nua' translates 'contain' with 'bí' + 'i' in virtually every case in this context.


Are you suggesting I should use the continuous present, "Bíonn téacs Laidine Eipistilí Naomh Pól sa lámhscríbhinn...", or should I use "Tá..."?

For now I've gone with the former, but it seems odd to me.

Errigal wrote:
- 'ghluaiseanna eile atá caillte le haois na lámhscríbinne, agus le linn a cumhdach': I don't think 'le' is the appropriate preposition here. 'De bharr' (or similar) suits better. Téarma.ie uses 'ceangal' for 'bookbinding > 'le linn a ceangail' (genitive). The present tense won't fit with 'le linn', so you'll have to use the past 'cailleadh' (as in the English version) instead of 'atá caillte' - or you could omit 'le linn' and let 'de bharr' cover that too (again, as in the English).


Which of the following do you think reads more naturally while retaining the sense of the English?

Rinne siad nóta ar ghluaiseanna eile atá caillte anois de bharr aois na lámhscríbhinne, agus oibriú a ceangail.

or

Dar le na heagarthóirí, cailleadh gluaiseanna eile de bharr aois na lámhscríbhinne, agus oibriú a ceangail.

Or perhaps theres some other, better way?

Errigal wrote:
- 'le himeacht oibre': Modelled on 'le himeacht aimsire'? I googled it and found no occurrences.


I can't quite recall. I think I looked for a solution in de Bhaldraithe, however, I can't remember if it was exact or if I extrapolated from something like imeacht na gcúrsaí/aimsire. Any alternative suggestion? I was trying to work with something like ...leanann ar aghaidh... but don't know how to force that turn-of-phrase in.

Errigal wrote:
- 'mar bhall': I'm not sure you can use 'ball' rather than 'cuid' in this context.


I found ball oibre in Ó Dónall, meaning "a spell of work", so I assumed it could be used with obair. Whether or not it's a natural usage of ball I can't say.

You'd suggest "...mar chuid d'obair..." instead?

GRMA aríst.


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 Post subject: Re: Proofing for Website
PostPosted: Sun 27 Jan 2019 9:24 pm 
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1 - Most definitely not 'bíonn'! I was thinking 'Is sa lámhscríbinn CPW atá téacs Laidine ENP', which feels a bit inadequate - despite what I said about how 'contain' is translated in AFN - so perhaps 'atá...le fáil' or even 'a fhaightear' instead? Or perhaps not. I don't know. Maybe someone else will contribute a better version. I still think 'coinnigh' isn't suitable.

2 - 'Rinne siad nóta', I think, is more the physical act. Among the dictionary translations given for 'note' is 'tabhair faoi deara', and googling gives a few instances, so maybe, keeping it as one sentence as in the English - 'agus iad ag tabhairt faoi deara go gcailleadh gluaiseanna eile'. I also came across 'ag nótáil' in some professionally translated official papers. Or you could just use 'ag lua'. 'Dar leis na héagarthóirí' works pretty well, I think.

3 - 'de bharr aois na lámhscríbinne agus (de bharr) an phróisis ceangail. Not sure if the preposition needs to be repeated. Or 'le linn an phróisis ceangail/sa phróiseas ceangail'.

4 - 'de réir mar a leanann an obair ar aghaidh' (or 'atá...ag dul ar aghaidh')

5 - Yes, 'mar chuid d'obair thaighde'.

6 - 'i scríbhneoireacht triúir' - Though "scribal hand" isn't in the English-Irish dictionaries, there's ' scríobhaí' for "scribe" and 'saoi scríbhinne' for "master scribe", which seem close enough. Maybe 'Tá gluaiseanna imill...scríofa ag triúr saoithe scríbhinne éagsúla chun...'


Bear in mind I'm just a learner too, and these are just my suggestions, which are of course open to correction.


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 Post subject: Re: Proofing for Website
PostPosted: Fri 01 Feb 2019 10:51 am 
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Errigal wrote:
4 - 'de réir mar a leanann an obair ar aghaidh' (or 'atá...ag dul ar aghaidh').


Perhaps "...mar a leanfaí an obair"?


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 Post subject: Re: Proofing for Website
PostPosted: Tue 05 Feb 2019 5:39 pm 
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Ade wrote:
Errigal wrote:
4 - 'de réir mar a leanann an obair ar aghaidh' (or 'atá...ag dul ar aghaidh').


Perhaps "...mar a leanfaí an obair"?


I'd say you need a preposition there, and the present or future - not the conditional.

de rèir mar a leantar leis (or den) obair

Quote:
i lanúint na hoibre


"in continuing the work/in the continuation of the work"? I don't think that works.

Quote:
3,501 gluais le Gaeilge

I'd think i or as rather than le.


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 Post subject: Re: Proofing for Website
PostPosted: Tue 05 Feb 2019 6:32 pm 
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Errigal wrote:
"in continuing the work/in the continuation of the work"? I don't think that works.


Ó Dónaill gives i leanúint ruda for "following something", so, again I made an assumption here that you could fill in that "something".

Errigal wrote:
I'd think i or as rather than le.


These glosses aren't exclusively in Irish, and are often a combination of Latin and Irish, so I didn't want to say "glosses in Irish", but rather "glosses with/containing Irish content".


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 Post subject: Re: Proofing for Website
PostPosted: Tue 05 Feb 2019 10:49 pm 
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Ade wrote:
Errigal wrote:
"in continuing the work/in the continuation of the work"? I don't think that works.


Ó Dónaill gives i leanúint ruda for "following something", so, again I made an assumption here that you could fill in that "something".

But leanúint there means 'follow advice/example/a rule/a leader' etc., not 'continue, follow on' -which is what you need here. So no, it doesn't work.

Ade wrote:
Errigal wrote:
I'd think i or as rather than le.


These glosses aren't exclusively in Irish, and are often a combination of Latin and Irish, so I didn't want to say "glosses in Irish", but rather "glosses with/containing Irish content".

That's not what I would understand from your version. For clarity, why not "glosses in both Irish and Latin" or "many of them in Irish" or something like that?


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 Post subject: Re: Proofing for Website
PostPosted: Mon 11 Feb 2019 5:24 am 
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Errigal wrote:
Ade wrote:
Ó Dónaill gives i leanúint ruda for "following something", so, again I made an assumption here that you could fill in that "something".

But leanúint there means 'follow advice/example/a rule/a leader' etc., not 'continue, follow on' -which is what you need here. So no, it doesn't work.


Ok, I've gone to Baldy and found a few entries under progress. Many of them seem idiomatic, though, so I'd love some thoughts on which would work in my context.

I can make no progress with this problem - ní féidir liom aon talamh a dhéanamh ar an gceist seo.
He is making progress in his studies - tá sé ag déanamh dul chun cinn lena chuid staidéir.
To make slow/good progress - dul ar aghaidh go fadálach/maith.
To progress with one's studies - dul ar aghaidh go maith le do chuid léinn.
As the year progresses - de réir mar a bhíos*** an bhliain á caitheamh, ag dul thart.

***What form is this? It looks like first person, singular, past tense of in a munster form to me... but does that make sense?

Given all of this, a possible idiomatic translation might be:

de réir mar a bhíos(???) an obair ag dul chun cinn/ar aghaidh.

HOWEVER!

There may be a gem in here. I don't know if it's usable in the context as it's not given in any of the examples, but, de Bhaldraithe gives the verb gluaiseann as a translation for the verb to progress. If it works, for the sake of wordplay alone, I'd prefer to go with:

de réir mar a ghluaiseann an obair chun cinn.

Opinions would be great.


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 Post subject: Re: Proofing for Website
PostPosted: Mon 11 Feb 2019 5:17 pm 
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Ade wrote:
As the year progresses - de réir mar a bhíos*** an bhliain á caitheamh, ag dul thart.

***What form is this? It looks like first person, singular, past tense of in a munster form to me... but does that make sense?


This is the relative present habitual (used mostly in Ulster I think, and perhaps in Connacht, not in Munster and CO), in Munster and CO it would be *mar a bhíonn an bhliain á caitheamh (and I understand it as as the year is being spent, at its spending) – but Google does not find it, so I guess de réir mar a bhíos an bhliain… is so commonly used set phrase that it keeps the relative form in all dialects.

See relative forms in GnaG and Wiktionary conjugation table for , and compare to Scottish a bhios.


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 Post subject: Re: Proofing for Website
PostPosted: Mon 11 Feb 2019 6:38 pm 
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silmeth wrote:
Ade wrote:
As the year progresses - de réir mar a bhíos*** an bhliain á caitheamh, ag dul thart.

***What form is this? It looks like first person, singular, past tense of in a munster form to me... but does that make sense?


This is the relative present habitual (used mostly in Ulster I think, and perhaps in Connacht, not in Munster and CO), in Munster and CO it would be *mar a bhíonn an bhliain á caitheamh (and I understand it as as the year is being spent, at its spending) – but Google does not find it, so I guess de réir mar a bhíos an bhliain… is so commonly used set phrase that it keeps the relative form in all dialects.

See relative forms in GnaG and Wiktionary conjugation table for , and compare to Scottish a bhios.


GRMA! I had no idea about this usage.


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