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PostPosted: Wed 15 Aug 2018 7:15 pm 
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Hi all.

I’ve decided to take it upon myself to read my way through Peig, or to make an attempt at it at least. I’ve come across some interesting turns of phrase already, and it’s easy to see why she is such an esteemed storyteller.

The difficulty I’m having as a learner, however, often lies in those exact turns of phrase. Sometimes terms aren’t in dictionaries that are available to me. Other tones I can’t work out the sense of an idiom. The high register of Irish she uses, though beautiful and emotive, can be baffling at times.

So, I’ve started this thread so that I can ask about different lines I find in the book as I read through it, and get suggestions how best to understand what is being said. Any help would be very appreciated while I make my way through the book, so many thanks in advance to anyone who helps me out.

To open with, I have this line causing me some heartache:
Réitigh sé an talamh chomh luath is d’imigh sé sin is a líontí go Meiriceá...

The line is in chapter 1, early on. Her father bought some land at the request of his wife from a fellow who was moving to an tOileán Úr. What I can’t understand is who is the subject of the verb here, the father, or the seller? It seems to switch in the middle of the sentence.

My tentative translation was something like “He levelled/cleared the land as quickly and he left that and his nets(?) for America.”

If anyone could clarify what’s going on here for me that’d be great. Thanks. :GRMA:


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Aug 2018 8:01 pm 
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Quote:
Réitigh sé an talamh chomh luath is d’imigh sé sin is a líontí go Meiriceá...

The line is in chapter 1, early on. Her father bought some land at the request of his wife from a fellow who was moving to an tOileán Úr. What I can’t understand is who is the subject of the verb here, the father, or the seller? It seems to switch in the middle of the sentence.

My tentative translation was something like “He levelled/cleared the land as quickly and he left that and his nets(?) for America.”


Perhaps: “He cleared the land as quickly as that one and his family(?) left to America”?

FGB defines imigh as intransitive, so it should not have an object (although I think I’ve seen somewhere it used as a transitive verb… edit: no, I haven’t, confused it with fág which is both transitive and intransitive ‘leave’), then in the second clause the whole sé sin ‘that’ would be a subject, so the first subject is ‘he’, and the second one is some other ‘that one’.

As for a líontí – look at the third meaning for líon in FGB ‘full number, complement’ with líon tí being ‘household, family’ – thus perhaps líontí is not a plural here, but a compound?


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Aug 2018 11:00 pm 
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Ade wrote:
To open with, I have this line causing me some heartache:
Réitigh sé an talamh chomh luath is d’imigh sé sin is a líontí go Meiriceá...

Réitigh sé an talamh = He settled the land

In this case "settled" in the sense of sorted out/dealt with remaining legal matters. The "sé" here is Peig's father.

chomh luath is d'imigh sé sin is a líontí go Meiriceá = As soon as he and his family had gone to America

The "sé sin" here refers to the man Peig's father bought the land from. The "sin" is being used sort of like "that guy" in English. More colloquially the sentence is:

He (my father) sorted out our land as soon as that guy and his family went to America.

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The dialect I use is Munster Irish, particularly Cork Irish, so words or phrases I use might not be correct for other areas.:D

Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


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PostPosted: Thu 16 Aug 2018 1:01 pm 
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An Lon Dubh wrote:
Ade wrote:
To open with, I have this line causing me some heartache:
Réitigh sé an talamh chomh luath is d’imigh sé sin is a líontí go Meiriceá...

Réitigh sé an talamh = He settled the land

In this case "settled" in the sense of sorted out/dealt with remaining legal matters. The "sé" here is Peig's father.

chomh luath is d'imigh sé sin is a líontí go Meiriceá = As soon as he and his family had gone to America

The "sé sin" here refers to the man Peig's father bought the land from. The "sin" is being used sort of like "that guy" in English. More colloquially the sentence is:

He (my father) sorted out our land as soon as that guy and his family went to America.

Is it "settled" as in "to settle an account"?

Perhaps:

"He paid off the land as soon as the other fellow and his family went to America."

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WARNING: Intermediate speaker - await further opinions, corrections and adjustments before acting on my advice.
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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PostPosted: Thu 16 Aug 2018 5:23 pm 
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silmeth wrote:
As for a líontí – look at the third meaning for líon in FGB ‘full number, complement’ with líon tí being ‘household, family’ – thus perhaps líontí is not a plural here, but a compound?


Ah, that one had me confused alright. I've already seen Peig do something similar, but in reverse; "bun os cionn" is written, and FGB gives that as a compound, "bunoscionn".


An Lon Dubh wrote:
Réitigh sé an talamh = He settled the land

In this case "settled" in the sense of sorted out/dealt with remaining legal matters. The "sé" here is Peig's father.


Breandán wrote:
Is it "settled" as in "to settle an account"?

Perhaps:

"He paid off the land as soon as the other fellow and his family went to America."



I see. I didn't even consider it could mean "to settle" in a legal sense. That clears it right up.


Go raibh míle maith agaibh go léir!


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PostPosted: Thu 16 Aug 2018 7:40 pm 
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Breandán wrote:
Is it "settled" as in "to settle an account"?

Perhaps:

"He paid off the land as soon as the other fellow and his family went to America."

I think the Irish is as ambiguous in this case, just "settling up/sorting out". It could even mean just handing it off to a relative and giving them ownership. Although it might also mean what you suggest.

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The dialect I use is Munster Irish, particularly Cork Irish, so words or phrases I use might not be correct for other areas.:D

Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


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PostPosted: Thu 16 Aug 2018 8:38 pm 
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An Lon Dubh wrote:
Breandán wrote:
Is it "settled" as in "to settle an account"?

Perhaps:

"He paid off the land as soon as the other fellow and his family went to America."

I think the Irish is as ambiguous in this case, just "settling up/sorting out". It could even mean just handing it off to a relative and giving them ownership. Although it might also mean what you suggest.

Thanks for the explanation. I think I prefer "sorted out" rather than "settled", as the latter sounds like he physically moved in and set up a farm.

On the other hand "sorted out" sounds a bit colloquial.

I suppose there are ways to overcome the ambiguity of "settled", e.g., he settled/resolved matters/issues relating to the land", for example.

Anyway, I think Ade has the gist of it now, the translator in me just keeps looking for refinements.

_________________

WARNING: Intermediate speaker - await further opinions, corrections and adjustments before acting on my advice.
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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