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PostPosted: Tue 17 Jul 2018 10:30 pm 
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Cad é an difríocht idir "a bheith" agus "bheith"?

:GRMA:

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Tá fáilte roim nach aon cheartú!
I am a learner. Any translations offered are practice and should not be used unless confirmed.


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PostPosted: Wed 18 Jul 2018 10:32 am 
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Thosaíos ag scríobh gurb ainm briathartha simplí bheith, agus úsáidtear a bheith, mar shampla, nuair a theastaíonn forainm sealbhach roimh an bhfocal so (a bheith = ‘his being’), ach ní raibh ceart agam, agus níl sé chomh simplí sin. Gabh mo leithscéal as mo Bhéarla…

There is an interesting discussion on the subject on the old Daltaí forum, started by David of the corkirish blog. It seems that bheith (in modern Irish always lenited) is the original proper verbal noun, but (because of the infinitive construction with direct object like rud a dhéanamh?) in basically all contexts where one could just use bheith it is common to write and speak a bheith, eg. caithfidh mé bheith ann¹ or caithfidh mé a bheith ann², tá uaim bheith saor or tá uaim a bheith saor, and something similar happens with vs. a rá. And it seems no grammar book actually explains it.

Also aistear.ie claims one uses a bheith when it directly follows its agent, and bheith when it doesn’t, hence is maith liom bheith ag siúl agus is maith liom mo mhadra a bheith liom, and a fhios a bheith agam (cause it is a fhios that is at me). But it doesn’t seem to really be a hard rule in spoken language, since setntences like is maith liom a bheith or caithfidh mé a bheith are common… And the rule does not really makes sense with comparison to ba mhaith liom í posadh ‘I would like her to marry’ vs ba mhaith liom í a phosadh ‘I would like to marry her’ – judging from that is maith liom mo mhadra bheith liom should also be ok.



¹ caithfidh mé bheith has over 1600 hits on Google.
² caithfidh mé a bheith has only ~25, but the first ones are from Pota Focal and a few Irish dictionaries on Google Books…


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PostPosted: Fri 20 Jul 2018 1:22 pm 
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Joined: Sun 11 Sep 2011 5:12 pm
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Thank you for the reply. It still doesn't really make sense to me, though. So either is acceptable?

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Táim ag foghlaim Gaelainn na Mumhan

Tá fáilte roim nach aon cheartú!
I am a learner. Any translations offered are practice and should not be used unless confirmed.


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PostPosted: Fri 20 Jul 2018 4:25 pm 
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I had no idea it was that complicated. I thought it was just abbreviated speech. 8O


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PostPosted: Sat 21 Jul 2018 8:20 pm 
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Part of the problem is that a is usually silent in native speech.

Another part of the problem is that bheith is always lenited where other verbal nouns usually aren't.

There is a tendency to want to put a in where lenition is otherwise unexplainable.

A similar problem occurs with goil (=gabháil) versus ghoil (=ghabháil) menaing dul in Connacht and Ulster Irish. Sometimes it is lenited where one wouldn't normally expect it, such as after le, e.g., le ghoil amach Dé Domhnaigh. However, if you used a there, you would expect le a to become lena, which it doesn't/isn't.

I think as a general rule you can use a bheith where other verbal nouns take a and bheith on its own where other verbal nouns come directly after a verb, etc.

In other words, just follow the pattern of other verbal nouns in the same position.

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WARNING: Intermediate speaker - await further opinions, corrections and adjustments before acting on my advice.
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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PostPosted: Sun 22 Jul 2018 2:01 am 
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In Donegal, the verb "a theacht" is also always lenited except after "ag".
And also, strangely enough, some speakers lenite "ghabháil" even when "ag" should be before it (which should remove the lenition): they say "tá mé ghabháil 'n a' bhaile".

But as far as I know, it doesn't happen with "theacht": people always say "tá sé (ag) teacht".

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PostPosted: Mon 23 Jul 2018 7:25 pm 
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Location: Hamilton, NJ, USA
Go raibh maith agaibh as an gcabhair! :GRMA:

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Táim ag foghlaim Gaelainn na Mumhan

Tá fáilte roim nach aon cheartú!
I am a learner. Any translations offered are practice and should not be used unless confirmed.


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