It is currently Thu 18 Apr 2024 12:09 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon 23 Apr 2018 9:02 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed 16 Nov 2016 11:12 pm
Posts: 196
I know that "Irish is the language of the Druids" can be said in several ways in Irish.

Which of these are correct options?

Is teanga na nDraoithe an Ghaeilge
Teanga na nDraoithe is ea an Ghaeilge

I'm assuming in both that "an Ghaeilge" is correct because I'm talking about the entirety of the language.

Are either of those two correct, and are there other options?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 23 Apr 2018 3:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri 09 Sep 2011 2:06 pm
Posts: 682
Vitaee wrote:
I know that "Irish is the language of the Druids" can be said in several ways in Irish.

Which of these are correct options?

Is teanga na nDraoithe an Ghaeilge
Teanga na nDraoithe is ea an Ghaeilge

I'm assuming in both that "an Ghaeilge" is correct because I'm talking about the entirety of the language.

Are either of those two correct, and are there other options?



Is oth liom a rá nach bhfuil ceachtar den bheirt ceart.

It's an identification sentence, so: Is í teanga na nDraoithe an Ghaeilge, but the usual order is Is í an Ghaeilge teanga na nDraoithe.
In the CO is ea is used only in classification sentences (but Munster speakers often ignore that).
Edit: Labhrás posted while I was editing some typos.


Last edited by Errigal on Mon 23 Apr 2018 3:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 23 Apr 2018 3:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat 03 May 2014 4:01 pm
Posts: 1715
Vitaee wrote:
I know that "Irish is the language of the Druids" can be said in several ways in Irish.

Which of these are correct options?

Is teanga na nDraoithe an Ghaeilge
Teanga na nDraoithe is ea an Ghaeilge

I'm assuming in both that "an Ghaeilge" is correct because I'm talking about the entirety of the language.

Are either of those two correct, and are there other options?


Both aren't correct.
"teanga na ndraoithe" is definite (the language of the druids) so a pronoun must separate it from "is"
So:
Is í teanga na ndraoithe an Ghaeilge.
or rather
Is í an Ghaeilge teanga na ndraoithe.

As well, "is ea" can only be used with indefinite predicates
(Teanga is ea an Ghaeilge = Irish is a language)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 23 Apr 2018 8:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 22 Dec 2011 6:28 am
Posts: 375
Location: Corcaigh
Labhrás wrote:

Both aren't correct.
"teanga na ndraoithe" is definite (the language of the druids) so a pronoun must separate it from "is"
So:
Is í teanga na ndraoithe an Ghaeilge.


Must the pronoun separate it from "is" or can the pronoun be used elsewhere?

e.g. Is teanga na ndraoithe í an Ghaeilge.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 23 Apr 2018 10:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat 03 May 2014 4:01 pm
Posts: 1715
Ade wrote:
Labhrás wrote:

Both aren't correct.
"teanga na ndraoithe" is definite (the language of the druids) so a pronoun must separate it from "is"
So:
Is í teanga na ndraoithe an Ghaeilge.


Must the pronoun separate it from "is" or can the pronoun be used elsewhere?

e.g. Is teanga na ndraoithe í an Ghaeilge.


No, it can't be elsewhere in identification sentences
Is í ...

In classification sentences (indefinite predicate) the pronoun is next to the second noun (subject)
e.g.
Is teanga í an Ghaeilge = Irish is a language.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed 25 Apr 2018 8:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 22 Dec 2011 6:28 am
Posts: 375
Location: Corcaigh
Labhrás wrote:
Ade wrote:
Labhrás wrote:

Both aren't correct.
"teanga na ndraoithe" is definite (the language of the druids) so a pronoun must separate it from "is"
So:
Is í teanga na ndraoithe an Ghaeilge.


Must the pronoun separate it from "is" or can the pronoun be used elsewhere?

e.g. Is teanga na ndraoithe í an Ghaeilge.


No, it can't be elsewhere in identification sentences
Is í ...

In classification sentences (indefinite predicate) the pronoun is next to the second noun (subject)
e.g.
Is teanga í an Ghaeilge = Irish is a language.


Ah, tuigim! GRMA


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu 26 Apr 2018 1:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed 16 Nov 2016 11:12 pm
Posts: 196
OK, I get that "Is í...." should be at the start because both halves of the identification clause are definite, but why does
"..an Ghaeilge..." come before "..teanga na nDraoithe..."??


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu 26 Apr 2018 4:31 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat 07 Feb 2015 11:24 am
Posts: 606
Location: Baile Mhic Ghoilla Eoin, VA
Irish is a language
Irish is the language

Is teanga í an Ghaeilge
Is í an Ghaeilge an teanga


The indirect moves before the í in the identification, but the "subject" stays in the same place either way (right after the í)

This is my layman's explanation, not being as familiar with the grammatical terms as Labhrás, for example

_________________
ЯГОН ТОҶИК НЕСТ ИНҶО???


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu 26 Apr 2018 6:44 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat 03 May 2014 4:01 pm
Posts: 1715
Cúmhaí wrote:
Irish is a language
Irish is the language

Is teanga í an Ghaeilge
Is í an Ghaeilge an teanga


The indirect moves before the í in the identification, but the "subject" stays in the same place either way (right after the í)

This is my layman's explanation, not being as familiar with the grammatical terms as Labhrás, for example


No, usually the predicate is always first.
Because Irish is a predicate-subject-object language.

But in identification sentences the predicate or subject can be first.
Cé hé an feirmeoir? Is é an t-amadán an feirmeoir. (an t-amadán = predicate)
Cé hé an t-amadán? Is é an t-amadán an feirmeoir. (an t-amadán = subject)

In case of an Ghaeilge ... Gaeilge is rather a proper name than a normal noun.
Proper nouns* usually always come first in such sentences.

Is é Pól an t-amadán (usually not: Is é an t-amadán Pól)
and so
Is í an Ghaeilge an teanga.

*) as well as nouns with demonstrative adjectives, demonstrative pronouns and pronouns of 1st or 2nd person
Is é an feirmeor seo an t-amadán
Is é seo an t-amdán
Is mé/mise an t-amadán.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu 26 Apr 2018 1:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat 07 Feb 2015 11:24 am
Posts: 606
Location: Baile Mhic Ghoilla Eoin, VA
Thank you, a Labhráis
I knew that I was not explaining it well. I am familiar with the word predicate only in the English sense where it means all of the sentence except the subject (or at least that is what I think it means). I did not realize that was even the name for the second noun involved in a copular phrase (or whatever they are called)

_________________
ЯГОН ТОҶИК НЕСТ ИНҶО???


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 42 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group