It is currently Tue 23 Oct 2018 11:58 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri 23 Mar 2018 1:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed 21 Mar 2018 12:51 am
Posts: 2
I'm presenting this poem to an elementary school class:

Dearc anuas, féach mar táimid,
A Naomh álainn féach sinn!
Féachaimid ár nglúin id’ láthair,
Dearc mar Mháthair ar do chlainn.

Cuidigh linn, a mháthair aoibhinn
Bí a choíche ag éisteacht linn.
A Naoimh Bhríd a Chéile Chríosta
Mar an faoileán ar an toinn.

Could someone translate this directly? I have an English version, but it looks to have a pretty different meaning than the Irish:

Far above enthroned in glory
Sweetest Saint of Erin’s Isle
See thy children kneel before thee
Turn on us a Mother’s smile.

Sancta Mater, hear our pleading
Faith and hope and holy love
Sweet St. Brigid, Spouse of Jesus,
Sent to us from Heaven above.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 25 Mar 2018 5:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun 28 Aug 2011 8:44 pm
Posts: 3445
Location: Santa Cruz Mountains, California, USA
TraverseTravis wrote:
I'm presenting this poem to an elementary school class:

Dearc anuas, féach mar táimid,
A Naomh álainn féach sinn!
Féachaimid ár nglúin id’ láthair,
Dearc mar Mháthair ar do chlainn.

Cuidigh linn, a mháthair aoibhinn
Bí a choíche ag éisteacht linn.
A Naoimh Bhríd a Chéile Chríosta
Mar an faoileán ar an toinn.

Could someone translate this directly? I have an English version, but it looks to have a pretty different meaning than the Irish:

Far above enthroned in glory
Sweetest Saint of Erin’s Isle
See thy children kneel before thee
Turn on us a Mother’s smile.

Sancta Mater, hear our pleading
Faith and hope and holy love
Sweet St. Brigid, Spouse of Jesus,
Sent to us from Heaven above.


Yeah...what you have there is poetic not literal.

Here's a more literal reading:

Look down, see how we are.
O beautiful saint, see us.
See us on our knees before you,
Look as a mother on your children.

Help us, O lovely mother,
Be forever listening to us,
O Saint Brighid*, Bride of Christ
As a seagull on the wave.

*It's "Brighid" (pronounced "breej" and, in the modern spelling, spelled "Bríd"), never "Brigid" (which is some Anglicized nonsense)

Redwolf


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 25 Mar 2018 12:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri 08 Jan 2016 11:37 pm
Posts: 77
Quote:
*It's "Brighid" (pronounced "breej" and, in the modern spelling, spelled "Bríd"), never "Brigid" (which is some Anglicized nonsense)


It’s Brigid in English, that’s how the language borrowed this name, probably in times when lenition hadn’t yet occured, and then developed into modern English, and it’s how the saint is called. Another variant of that name is Bridget. That's also why in Polish we write and say Brygida.

You could equally invalidly write that Séamas is some Gaelicised nonsense, cause the name is always James (pronounced with /dʒ/ and never /ʃ/). Or that it’s actually Yakob, and both James and Séamas are nonsense…


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 25 Mar 2018 3:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed 21 Mar 2018 12:51 am
Posts: 2
Thanks Redwolf! That's exactly what we needed. Yeah, more poetic, less Victorian sweetness. I like the image of the seagull.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 26 Mar 2018 12:13 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun 28 Aug 2011 8:44 pm
Posts: 3445
Location: Santa Cruz Mountains, California, USA
silmeth wrote:
Quote:
*It's "Brighid" (pronounced "breej" and, in the modern spelling, spelled "Bríd"), never "Brigid" (which is some Anglicized nonsense)


It’s Brigid in English, that’s how the language borrowed this name, probably in times when lenition hadn’t yet occured, and then developed into modern English, and it’s how the saint is called. Another variant of that name is Bridget. That's also why in Polish we write and say Brygida.

You could equally invalidly write that Séamas is some Gaelicised nonsense, cause the name is always James (pronounced with /dʒ/ and never /ʃ/). Or that it’s actually Yakob, and both James and Séamas are nonsense…


St. Bridget/Brygida is a completely different saint. She's Danish.

The "Brigid" spelling probably resulted from English speakers not understanding lenition, not from its absence.

Redwolf


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 26 Mar 2018 8:30 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri 08 Jan 2016 11:37 pm
Posts: 77
Brygida z Kildare was most certainly not Danish (nor Swedish, as was Brygida Szwedzka).

Brigid might have been borrowed by English in this form because of the lack of lenition in Old English. Nevertheless that was quite obvious way to borrow the name at that time (just as was Latin Brigida, and hence Polish Brygida). And modern Brigid pronounced /ˈbɹɪ.dʒɪd/ is just a regular evolution of it, that’s how language works.

(And if someone pronounces it actually /bʲɾʲiːdʲ/, /ˈbɹiː.ɪd/, or similarly, imitating modern Irish, then writing it either as Brigid or Brighid in English IMO makes little sense too – just write Bríd, showing the use of the modern Irish form.)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 26 Mar 2018 6:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun 28 Aug 2011 8:29 pm
Posts: 2669
In the old Irish spelling it was "Brigid" with a dot after the G. After the spelling reform it was "Brighid", but also with reform they got rid of the GH in most words and included the accent instead so it became "Bríd".

But it’s easy to see how English speakers who knew nothing of Irish spelling or couldn’t care less most of the time saw Bri-gid, and saw the comparision with the European Brigette etc and turned it into Bridget. Then Irish speakers followed that too as they thought they needed an English version of their name. Nowadays in Ireland “Bríd” is usually anglicised as Briege/Breege - spelling and pronunciation - not perfect but at least closer to the Irish word.

"Bríd" comes from the noun "brí" (strength), and was the name of an ancient goddess.
Some people dispute that St. Bríd even existed, that she was invented to replace the goddess. Which was common practice with the early Christians with pagan beliefs.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu 05 Apr 2018 10:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun 04 Sep 2011 11:02 pm
Posts: 1370
To add to what Bríd explained, the name became very popular in Germanic-speaking countries (not sure whether the Vikings took it home with them), and in some cases there was a transposing of letters (very common in many languages) which resulted in versions such as Birgit.

_________________
I'm not a native (or entirely fluent) speaker, so be sure to wait for confirmations/corrections, especially for tattoos.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 06 Apr 2018 5:17 am 
Online

Joined: Sat 03 May 2014 4:01 pm
Posts: 932
CaoimhínSF wrote:
To add to what Bríd explained, the name became very popular in Germanic-speaking countries (not sure whether the Vikings took it home with them), and in some cases there was a transposing of letters (very common in many languages) which resulted in versions such as Birgit.


Bridget (Birgitta) of Sweden was the daughter of a man called Birger Persson. (Birger -> Birgitta Birgersdotter)
So, I'd guess this is a different name without any connection to Bríd.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 06 Apr 2018 10:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun 04 Sep 2011 11:02 pm
Posts: 1370
Quote:
Bridget (Birgitta) of Sweden was the daughter of a man called Birger Persson. (Birger -> Birgitta Birgersdotter)
So, I'd guess this is a different name without any connection to Bríd.


Good to know. My source must have been misinformed.

_________________
I'm not a native (or entirely fluent) speaker, so be sure to wait for confirmations/corrections, especially for tattoos.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Labhrás and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group