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PostPosted: Fri 23 Mar 2018 1:37 am 
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I'm presenting this poem to an elementary school class:

Dearc anuas, féach mar táimid,
A Naomh álainn féach sinn!
Féachaimid ár nglúin id’ láthair,
Dearc mar Mháthair ar do chlainn.

Cuidigh linn, a mháthair aoibhinn
Bí a choíche ag éisteacht linn.
A Naoimh Bhríd a Chéile Chríosta
Mar an faoileán ar an toinn.

Could someone translate this directly? I have an English version, but it looks to have a pretty different meaning than the Irish:

Far above enthroned in glory
Sweetest Saint of Erin’s Isle
See thy children kneel before thee
Turn on us a Mother’s smile.

Sancta Mater, hear our pleading
Faith and hope and holy love
Sweet St. Brigid, Spouse of Jesus,
Sent to us from Heaven above.


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PostPosted: Sun 25 Mar 2018 5:04 am 
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TraverseTravis wrote:
I'm presenting this poem to an elementary school class:

Dearc anuas, féach mar táimid,
A Naomh álainn féach sinn!
Féachaimid ár nglúin id’ láthair,
Dearc mar Mháthair ar do chlainn.

Cuidigh linn, a mháthair aoibhinn
Bí a choíche ag éisteacht linn.
A Naoimh Bhríd a Chéile Chríosta
Mar an faoileán ar an toinn.

Could someone translate this directly? I have an English version, but it looks to have a pretty different meaning than the Irish:

Far above enthroned in glory
Sweetest Saint of Erin’s Isle
See thy children kneel before thee
Turn on us a Mother’s smile.

Sancta Mater, hear our pleading
Faith and hope and holy love
Sweet St. Brigid, Spouse of Jesus,
Sent to us from Heaven above.


Yeah...what you have there is poetic not literal.

Here's a more literal reading:

Look down, see how we are.
O beautiful saint, see us.
See us on our knees before you,
Look as a mother on your children.

Help us, O lovely mother,
Be forever listening to us,
O Saint Brighid*, Bride of Christ
As a seagull on the wave.

*It's "Brighid" (pronounced "breej" and, in the modern spelling, spelled "Bríd"), never "Brigid" (which is some Anglicized nonsense)

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Sun 25 Mar 2018 12:40 pm 
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Quote:
*It's "Brighid" (pronounced "breej" and, in the modern spelling, spelled "Bríd"), never "Brigid" (which is some Anglicized nonsense)


It’s Brigid in English, that’s how the language borrowed this name, probably in times when lenition hadn’t yet occured, and then developed into modern English, and it’s how the saint is called. Another variant of that name is Bridget. That's also why in Polish we write and say Brygida.

You could equally invalidly write that Séamas is some Gaelicised nonsense, cause the name is always James (pronounced with /dʒ/ and never /ʃ/). Or that it’s actually Yakob, and both James and Séamas are nonsense…


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PostPosted: Sun 25 Mar 2018 3:12 pm 
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Thanks Redwolf! That's exactly what we needed. Yeah, more poetic, less Victorian sweetness. I like the image of the seagull.


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PostPosted: Mon 26 Mar 2018 12:13 am 
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silmeth wrote:
Quote:
*It's "Brighid" (pronounced "breej" and, in the modern spelling, spelled "Bríd"), never "Brigid" (which is some Anglicized nonsense)


It’s Brigid in English, that’s how the language borrowed this name, probably in times when lenition hadn’t yet occured, and then developed into modern English, and it’s how the saint is called. Another variant of that name is Bridget. That's also why in Polish we write and say Brygida.

You could equally invalidly write that Séamas is some Gaelicised nonsense, cause the name is always James (pronounced with /dʒ/ and never /ʃ/). Or that it’s actually Yakob, and both James and Séamas are nonsense…


St. Bridget/Brygida is a completely different saint. She's Danish.

The "Brigid" spelling probably resulted from English speakers not understanding lenition, not from its absence.

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Mon 26 Mar 2018 8:30 am 
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Brygida z Kildare was most certainly not Danish (nor Swedish, as was Brygida Szwedzka).

Brigid might have been borrowed by English in this form because of the lack of lenition in Old English. Nevertheless that was quite obvious way to borrow the name at that time (just as was Latin Brigida, and hence Polish Brygida). And modern Brigid pronounced /ˈbɹɪ.dʒɪd/ is just a regular evolution of it, that’s how language works.

(And if someone pronounces it actually /bʲɾʲiːdʲ/, /ˈbɹiː.ɪd/, or similarly, imitating modern Irish, then writing it either as Brigid or Brighid in English IMO makes little sense too – just write Bríd, showing the use of the modern Irish form.)


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PostPosted: Mon 26 Mar 2018 6:53 pm 
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In the old Irish spelling it was "Brigid" with a dot after the G. After the spelling reform it was "Brighid", but also with reform they got rid of the GH in most words and included the accent instead so it became "Bríd".

But it’s easy to see how English speakers who knew nothing of Irish spelling or couldn’t care less most of the time saw Bri-gid, and saw the comparision with the European Brigette etc and turned it into Bridget. Then Irish speakers followed that too as they thought they needed an English version of their name. Nowadays in Ireland “Bríd” is usually anglicised as Briege/Breege - spelling and pronunciation - not perfect but at least closer to the Irish word.

"Bríd" comes from the noun "brí" (strength), and was the name of an ancient goddess.
Some people dispute that St. Bríd even existed, that she was invented to replace the goddess. Which was common practice with the early Christians with pagan beliefs.


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PostPosted: Thu 05 Apr 2018 10:34 pm 
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To add to what Bríd explained, the name became very popular in Germanic-speaking countries (not sure whether the Vikings took it home with them), and in some cases there was a transposing of letters (very common in many languages) which resulted in versions such as Birgit.

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PostPosted: Fri 06 Apr 2018 5:17 am 
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CaoimhínSF wrote:
To add to what Bríd explained, the name became very popular in Germanic-speaking countries (not sure whether the Vikings took it home with them), and in some cases there was a transposing of letters (very common in many languages) which resulted in versions such as Birgit.


Bridget (Birgitta) of Sweden was the daughter of a man called Birger Persson. (Birger -> Birgitta Birgersdotter)
So, I'd guess this is a different name without any connection to Bríd.


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PostPosted: Fri 06 Apr 2018 10:02 pm 
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Quote:
Bridget (Birgitta) of Sweden was the daughter of a man called Birger Persson. (Birger -> Birgitta Birgersdotter)
So, I'd guess this is a different name without any connection to Bríd.


Good to know. My source must have been misinformed.

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