It is currently Tue 23 Oct 2018 9:43 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 44 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Another Story
PostPosted: Wed 14 Feb 2018 9:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2011 9:55 am
Posts: 1889
Location: 91 - France
The one I'm reading at the moment is 'The Cat's Place by the Fire' which has been translated into English by Eileen O'Faolain. It's in her book 'Children of the Salmon and other Irish Folktales' The original Irish version is in the 'Béaloideas' Magazine which you can read on JSTOR. While I fully recognise any storyteller's right to reshape and remodel a story in the oral tradition, I do feel that the original style has lost quite a lot in translation. I can give you the whole of it, if anyone's interested - it's not very long. I'm stuck on some of the vocabulary and unfortunately I can't always find what I'm looking for in Dinneen's Dictionary.

When orm follows iallach, surely that means that the obligation falls on oneself (ie the dog), doesn't it? So I don't understand how it's being used here.


MÁIGHISTREACHT AN TIGHE AG AN GCAT

Bhíodh an gadhar amuich le fliuchán agus fuacht fadó, agus bhíodh an cat istigh cois an teallaigh. Dubhairt an gadhar an lá seo, agus é fliuch báidhte : "Tá áit chompóirteach agat," leis an gcat, ach ní bheidh sé níos mó agat nó go bhfeicidh mise a bhfuil iallach orm féin a bheith amuich 'chuile dhroch-lá agus tusa istigh."

The Cat's Place by the Fire

From bygone times the dog used always be out in the cold and the wet while the cat was always inside cosy by the fireside. One day when the dog was drowned and wet from the rain he said to the cat : "You are fine and comfortable inside always while I'm out in the cold and the wet, but I'm going to see to it that you'll not be inside any longer."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another Story
PostPosted: Thu 15 Feb 2018 8:00 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon 16 Nov 2015 1:36 pm
Posts: 105
Location: Brussels
franc 91 wrote:
When orm follows iallach, surely that means that the obligation falls on oneself (ie the dog), doesn't it? So I don't understand how it's being used here.

Could it be like if the dog said "I'll have to do something about that!"

For example, my Irish grammar is awful. I'll have to do something about that.

_________________
Pages I made:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another Story
PostPosted: Thu 15 Feb 2018 2:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun 28 Aug 2011 8:29 pm
Posts: 2669
The English isn't a direct translation. And the Irish looks a bit off too.

If "nach" was added I think the last sentence would be ok.

ach ní bheidh sé níos mó agat nó go bhfeicidh mise nach bhfuil iallach orm féin a bheith amuich 'chuile dhroch-lá agus tusa istigh.

"Tá iallach orm féin..." I am forced to....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another Story
PostPosted: Thu 15 Feb 2018 9:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2011 9:55 am
Posts: 1889
Location: 91 - France
Ah d'accord, je comprends un peu mieux. Merci ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another Story
PostPosted: Sat 24 Feb 2018 11:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2011 9:55 am
Posts: 1889
Location: 91 - France
Here are two more words that I can't find - a' guil. Here's the context -

Casadh fear siubhail dó, agus nuair a chonnaic sé an gadhar ag tigheacht agus a bhéal osglaighthe aige, shíl sé gur a' guil ag breith air féin a bhí sé, agus bhí maide i n-a láimh, agus bhuail sé an gadhar, agus é a' guil amach thairis.

and the second one is - don. This is taken from the next story - RÍ NA N-ÉAN : AN DREÓILÍN

Chuireadar geall éanacha an aéir uiliug le chéile go bhfeicidís cé acab is áirde a bhí i ndon a dhul ins an aer.

By the way I'm copying this out as it is printed, so quite often there are fadas missing here and there, for example - me instead of mé, tri instead of trí, srl. As I mentioned above, these are stories that were published in Béaloideas, but as they were printed in Dublin, so it makes you wonder whether the type-setter knew what he was doing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another Story
PostPosted: Sat 24 Feb 2018 11:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat 03 May 2014 4:01 pm
Posts: 932
franc 91 wrote:
Here are two more words that I can't find - a' guil. Here's the context -

Casadh fear siubhail dó, agus nuair a chonnaic sé an gadhar ag tigheacht agus a bhéal osglaighthe aige, shíl sé gur a' guil ag breith air féin a bhí sé, agus bhí maide i n-a láimh, agus bhuail sé an gadhar, agus é a' guil amach thairis.


a' guil = ag goil = ag dul = going

franc 91 wrote:
and the second one is - don. This is taken from the next story - RÍ NA N-ÉAN : AN DREÓILÍN

Chuireadar geall éanacha an aéir uiliug le chéile go bhfeicidís cé acab is áirde a bhí i ndon a dhul ins an aer.


i ndon = in ann = able to


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another Story
PostPosted: Sun 25 Feb 2018 11:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2011 9:55 am
Posts: 1889
Location: 91 - France
Go raibh maith agat.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another Story
PostPosted: Sun 25 Feb 2018 8:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2011 9:55 am
Posts: 1889
Location: 91 - France
Here's the first story in full.

MÁIGHISTREACHT AN TIGHE AG AN GCAT

Bhíodh an gadhar amuich le fluichán agus fuacht fadó, agus
bhíodh an cat istigh cois an teallaigh. Dubhairt an gadhar an
lá seo, agus é fliuch báidhte : "Tá áit chompóirteach agat," leis
an gcat , "ach ní bheidh sé níos mó agat nó go bhfeicidh mise a
bhfuil iallach orm féin a bheith amuich 'chuile dhroch-lá agus tusa
istigh."
Chuala fear an tighe an argúinteacht a bhí idir an cúpla, agus
chreid sé go mba mhaith an ceart an cás a réidhteach idir iad.
"I mbárach," adeir sé, "cuirfidh mise ag rith rása sibh le chéile,
cúig mhíle o'n teach, agus cé bí cé agaibh a thiocfas isteach 'un
tosaigh is aige a bhéas an áit istigh, agus béidh an ceann eile ag
déanamh seirbhís na háite taobh amuich."
Réidhtigh an cúpla iad féin, agus ritheadar, agus ar an mbealach
ag tígheacht dóib, bhí leith-mhíle thosach ag an ngadhar ar an
gcat. Casadh fear siubhail dó, agus nuair a chonnaic sé an gadhar
ag tigheacht agus a bhéal osglaighthe aige, shíl sé gur a' guil ag
breith air féin a bhí sé, agus bhí maide i n-a láimh, agus bhuail
sé an gadhar, agus é a' guil amch thairis. Nuair a gortuigheadh
an gadhar sheas sé ag tafann, agus ag brath ar é ithe, ag baint a
shásaimh dhe.
Bhí an cat ar feadh an achair seo ag déanamh an bhealaigh nó
gp raibh sé istigh, agus a sgíth leigthe aige, cois na teineadh, agus
é dhá ligheachan féin roimh an ngadhar.
"Anois," adeir an cat, nuair a tháinig an gadhar isteach, " tá
an geall rithte agus an áit istigh agam-sa go bráth aríst."


Last edited by franc 91 on Sun 25 Feb 2018 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another Story
PostPosted: Sun 25 Feb 2018 9:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun 28 Aug 2011 8:29 pm
Posts: 2669
Labhrás wrote:
a' guil = ag goil = ag dul = going

:good:
Ag goil - is how we say it in Conamara.

Also in this context "ag breith air" means "to bite him".
He thought the dog was going to bite him.


Poor dog :dog: ! That race wasn't fair at all. :rofl:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another Story
PostPosted: Sun 25 Feb 2018 10:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2011 9:55 am
Posts: 1889
Location: 91 - France
Go raibh maith agat - so what dialect is it in ? Conamara ? I think there must be a few mistakes here and there - for example, is it - tígheacht or tigheacht ? It's the first time I've seen tomorrow written as - i mbárach.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 44 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], rkshaw03 and 14 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group