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PostPosted: Sun 14 Jan 2018 4:00 pm 
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Dia dhaoibh, I understand how constants are pronounced differently depending if they're broad or slender for example how slender d has a 'j' sound, and knowing these distinctions has made it a lot easier for me to spell words from ear. However I find it hard to hear a difference between slender and broad constants like h, l, n, b, c, r e.t.c could you please give an explanation on their pronunciations. Also I often hear that there is sometimes a 'rolled r sound' in Irish, could you please tell me when this is used and how


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PostPosted: Sun 14 Jan 2018 9:01 pm 
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The differences are pretty clear for traditionally spoken Irish. Especially for R. What recordings have you been listening to?

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PostPosted: Sun 14 Jan 2018 10:04 pm 
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Bríd made a recording where she reads a list of word pairs, one is slender and the other is broad:

viewtopic.php?p=37989#p37989

And if you have the recordings for Learning Irish, then CD1-track2 also has a list:

https://ciaran.compsoc.com/learning-iri ... d1-track02

(Bríd and LI both use Connemara accent.)

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PostPosted: Mon 15 Jan 2018 4:42 pm 
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An Lon Dubh wrote:
The differences are pretty clear for traditionally spoken Irish. Especially for R. What recordings have you been listening to?

well I can hear the difference in 'airgead' and the genitive 'airgid' because of the j sound at the end of the latter, but I can't make out the difference with other constants such as r and n, for example whats the difference in 'domhan' and the genitive 'domhain' or 'leabhar' and the plural 'leabhair' in sound?


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Jan 2018 5:00 pm 
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The r that comes at the end of leabhair is pronounced as if there's a (French) je sound just after the r (well that's how I hear it, anyway) and some people even pronounce it almost as a soft d.

http://www.teanglann.ie/ga/fuaim/leabhar

http://www.teanglann.ie/ga/fuaim/leabhair

http://www.teanglann.ie/ga/fuaim/domhan

http://www.teanglann.ie/ga/fuaim/domhain


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PostPosted: Tue 16 Jan 2018 11:37 am 
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The sounds are so different... to me if you don't hear a difference, it must be because the speakers you heard didn't pronounce properly. In the speech of native speakers like Bríd, the broad and slender sounds are completely different. While most non-native speakers (ie. most of what you can hear on the web, unfortunately) don't make differences because they replace all Irish sounds by the closest English ones (and since there are no broad and slender consonants in English...)

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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan 2018 12:48 am 
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An Sionnach Glic wrote:
or 'leabhar' and the plural 'leabhair' in sound?

You must be listening to non-native speakers as the difference in this case is very clear. Try fuaimeanna.ie:

http://fuaimeanna.ie/ga/Recordings.aspx?PhonemeID=47

http://fuaimeanna.ie/ga/Recordings.aspx?PhonemeID=48

First link is broad r and second is slender. Notice the buzzing sound of slender R in the second link.

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The dialect I use is Munster Irish, particularly Cork Irish, so words or phrases I use might not be correct for other areas.:D

Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan 2018 5:23 am 
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I am sure with these recordings it will be quite clear for you.

One thing I will mention is that to my understanding the letter "h" should have no slender or broad variation. It is not a traditional letter anyway, since it only serves grammatical functions.

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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan 2018 12:43 pm 
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The h- is used to mark the séimhiú and also it's prefixed to vowels in a number of cases (a hathair). So it is a traditional letter, even though its use is specific.
Btw the /h/ has no slender counterpart, usually, except in certain dialects. Afaik, it has a slender version in the Irish of Ring, Co. Waterford.

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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan 2018 6:51 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
The h- is used to mark the séimhiú and also it's prefixed to vowels in a number of cases (a hathair). So it is a traditional letter, even though its use is specific.


Ah I only meant to say it is not a traditional letter in the sense it is not a usual letter not to say it is not traditionally used
LOL funny how that word can be ambiguous

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