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PostPosted: Tue 17 Oct 2017 8:44 pm 
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Irish original
Logainm.ie says that Caherdaniel is the anglicization of 'Cathair Dónall'. Wikipedia (in Irish) tells us it's 'Cathair Dhónaill'. Which of the two versions should be preferred?

Meaning
The English Wikipedia-page says 'Dónall's stone ringfort'. The French Wikipedia-page gives roughly the same meaning, but divides 'Dónall' in 'D ó Nall'. What can be said about this divison in three parts?

Pronounciation
Am I right that in the anglicization the first part (Caher-) is (more or less) pronounced like the English word 'care'? (That is: one syllabe, and not not two?)
And what would (in Munster) be the pronounciation of the Irish original? Am I right that Cathair would be pronounced with two syllabes, rather than one?

Thanks very much.


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PostPosted: Tue 17 Oct 2017 10:00 pm 
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gch_nl wrote:
Irish original
Logainm.ie says that Caherdaniel is the anglicization of 'Cathair Dónall'. Wikipedia (in Irish) tells us it's 'Cathair Dhónaill'. Which of the two versions should be preferred?

I'd prefer a third one Cathair Dónaill. ;)
In old spelling Cathair Domhnaill.
The name Dónall (Domhnall) should be in genitive case.

But I don't know what those, at least, 10 local native speakers say.

The town sign says Cathair Dónall, e.g.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/51°46'10.4"N+10°05'58.6"W/@51.7720209,-10.110025,254m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!4b1!8m2!3d51.769553!4d-10.0996?hl=en
Quote:
Meaning
The English Wikipedia-page says 'Dónall's stone ringfort'. The French Wikipedia-page gives roughly the same meaning, but divides 'Dónall' in 'D ó Nall'. What can be said about this divison in three parts?

That's nonsense, a typo, maybe, though 7 years old. :/
Quote:
Pronounciation
Am I right that in the anglicization the first part (Caher-) is (more or less) pronounced like the English word 'care'? (That is: one syllabe, and not not two?)

No, in two. /'kahər 'dænjəl/
Quote:
And what would (in Munster) be the pronounciation of the Irish original? Am I right that Cathair would be pronounced with two syllabes, rather than one?

Yes, of course two syllables.
Here's a pronunciation of Caherdaniel/Cathair Dónall.
https://www.logainm.ie/en/1373148


Last edited by Labhrás on Tue 17 Oct 2017 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue 17 Oct 2017 10:11 pm 
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A Labhráis,

Cén fáth nach litrítear é leis an "h"? Mar gur ainm "suite" é, an ea (ainm dílis)? (in ionad mar a déarfaí de ghnáth, cathaoir Thomás etc.)


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PostPosted: Tue 17 Oct 2017 10:38 pm 
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Thank you very, very much, Labhrás.

The site logainm.ie drives me crazy. Why are the sound files given only where the 'electoral district' is concerned (and not in the other two cases ('population centre' and 'townland'))? Arrghhhg!

Anyhow: thanks again.

If you were to reply to Gumbi, could you do so in English? I don't trust Google Translate.

Cheers!


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PostPosted: Wed 18 Oct 2017 12:32 pm 
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Gumbi wrote:
A Labhráis,

Cén fáth nach litrítear é leis an "h"? Mar gur ainm "suite" é, an ea (ainm dílis)? (in ionad mar a déarfaí de ghnáth, cathaoir Thomás etc.)


In many (usually older) place names personal names (saints etc.) aren't lenited, e.g. Dún Pádraig, Tobar Mártain, Tobar Bríde,
But one can find as well (in other places) Dún Phádraig, Tobar Bhríde.


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PostPosted: Wed 18 Oct 2017 12:44 pm 
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Labhrás wrote:
Gumbi wrote:
A Labhráis,

Cén fáth nach litrítear é leis an "h"? Mar gur ainm "suite" é, an ea (ainm dílis)? (in ionad mar a déarfaí de ghnáth, cathaoir Thomás etc.)


In many (usually older) place names personal names (saints etc.) aren't lenited, e.g. Dún Pádraig, Tobar Mártain, Tobar Bríde,
But one can find as well (in other places) Dún Phádraig, Tobar Bhríde.

GRMA. There is a "Tobar Phádraig" near me actually; but thanks.


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PostPosted: Thu 19 Oct 2017 7:44 am 
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Also "r" will block lenition on a following "d". It doesn't have to, but that is the tendency.

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The dialect I use is Munster Irish, particularly Cork Irish, so words or phrases I use might not be correct for other areas.:D

Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


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PostPosted: Thu 19 Oct 2017 10:41 am 
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An Lon Dubh wrote:
Also "r" will block lenition on a following "d". It doesn't have to, but that is the tendency.

GRMA


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PostPosted: Fri 27 Oct 2017 6:34 pm 
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An Lon Dubh wrote:
Also "r" will block lenition on a following "d". It doesn't have to, but that is the tendency.

fascinating!!! :GRMA:

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PostPosted: Fri 27 Oct 2017 6:36 pm 
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gch_nl wrote:
The site logainm.ie drives me crazy.


It should. It is not very trustworthy.

Labhrás wrote:
The town sign says Cathair Dónall

Is there any possible explanation other than just error? It seems obvious that there should be an 'i' there.

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