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PostPosted: Fri 21 Jul 2017 9:27 pm 
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Cúmhaí wrote:
Labhrás wrote:


Actually I have looked at the link. All of the examples could be seen as having no subject, but I think it is likely not a coincidence that these are all forms that traditionally and in Munster include the third person. You know what I mean?

So is it really a lack of a subject? Or is it just an older verb form?


I know what you mean. But I don't know.

Here, I think the noun following déan is actually the subject. But traditional grammars differ and call it "impersonal use". Perhaps because it is a somewhat strange behaviour of déan with its allegedly "clear" transitive meaning of "to make" having a subject that doesn't act at all. But such intransitivizing is normal with other verbs. I see no difference why "déan de" can't be made intransitive as well.


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PostPosted: Sat 22 Jul 2017 8:25 am 
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These are excellent examples. It's hard to get a feel for the saorbhriathar if you try to translate. It's just something that happened. Wonderful!


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PostPosted: Sat 22 Jul 2017 10:08 am 
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I received an email from David Webb.
He's of course right in that you can simply use iompaigh i for "turn into":

go dtí go n-iompóidh an domhan ar fad ina dheannach
(he used ... ina luaithrigh)

And I could add that imigh i might work as well:

go dtí go n-imeoidh an domhan ar fad ina dheannach


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PostPosted: Mon 24 Jul 2017 3:19 pm 
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Labhrás wrote:
Here, I think the noun following déan is actually the subject. But traditional grammars differ and call it "impersonal use". Perhaps because it is a somewhat strange behaviour of déan with its allegedly "clear" transitive meaning of "to make" having a subject that doesn't act at all. But such intransitivizing is normal with other verbs. I see no difference why "déan de" can't be made intransitive as well.


Very interesting. So could we translate rinne bean di as "une femme (s')en fit" or "a woman made (herself) out of it"? Keeping it transitive by implying a reflexive?

The intransitive idea is interesting also. rinne bean di as "a woman results of it" perhaps

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ЯГОН ТОҶИК НЕСТ ИНҶО???


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PostPosted: Mon 24 Jul 2017 4:01 pm 
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Cúmhaí wrote:
Labhrás wrote:
Here, I think the noun following déan is actually the subject. But traditional grammars differ and call it "impersonal use". Perhaps because it is a somewhat strange behaviour of déan with its allegedly "clear" transitive meaning of "to make" having a subject that doesn't act at all. But such intransitivizing is normal with other verbs. I see no difference why "déan de" can't be made intransitive as well.


Very interesting. So could we translate rinne bean di as "une femme (s')en fit" or "a woman made (herself) out of it"? Keeping it transitive by implying a reflexive?

The intransitive idea is interesting also. rinne bean di as "a woman results of it" perhaps


Yes, just about so.


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