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 Post subject: Old Irish help?
PostPosted: Wed 31 May 2017 3:53 pm 
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Joined: Wed 31 May 2017 3:39 pm
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Hello there. Just registered here and I wanted to ask for advice on the pronunciation of some names in their OLD IRISH forms. I'm writing a historical novel and I need to get a good sense of how some of these names are pronounced at the time it takes place on. I'm not an Irish speaker, but I know that phonology and pronunciation has changed from Old Irish to current Irish. I'm particularly interested in these three: Sadb, Sétna and Óengus (some of the others I think I know how to pronounce). I've read a variety of different pronunciations online, but I have the suspicion the forms you find online are more modern ones. Sadb, for instance, seems to be pronounced as "Sive", and Sétna seems to be "Shay-nah", but I've no clue if these are valid for Old Irish. If anyone here knows about Old Irish pronunciation, I'd really appreciate some help.


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 Post subject: Re: Old Irish help?
PostPosted: Wed 31 May 2017 6:28 pm 
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Quote:
Sadb, Sétna and Óengus (some of the others I think I know how to pronounce). I've read a variety of different pronunciations online, but I have the suspicion the forms you find online are more modern ones.


Quote:
Sadb, for instance, seems to be pronounced as "Sive",


"sive" is the Munster pronunciation of the modern form of the name ie. Sadhbh.
The Old Irish pronunciation has nothing to do with it, it was "Sathv", roughly ("th" as in "this" in BBC English pronunciation)

Quote:
and Sétna seems to be "Shay-nah",


it's wrong...

Sétna was pronounced "shay-dnah", roughly.
Óengus was pronounced roughly "oyn-ghooss" (gh is a kind of gargling sound that doesn't exist in English).

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 Post subject: Re: Old Irish help?
PostPosted: Wed 31 May 2017 9:49 pm 
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Joined: Wed 31 May 2017 3:39 pm
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Lughaidh wrote:
it's wrong...


Well, that's why I came here, because I knew it was most likely wrong (jeez...)

Thanks for the quick reply though! I may come back with a few more if they come up.


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 Post subject: Re: Old Irish help?
PostPosted: Wed 31 May 2017 11:04 pm 
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Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2011 12:06 pm
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Quote:
because I knew it was most likely wrong (jeez...)


sorry if you felt offended by my abrupt answer, I'm not an English native speaker, sometimes I forget that I shouldn't answer in this way to native English speakers... (while it's perfectly ok in my 1st language, ie. French).

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


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 Post subject: Re: Old Irish help?
PostPosted: Thu 01 Jun 2017 2:31 am 
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Joined: Wed 31 May 2017 3:39 pm
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Don't worry! That's understandable. For what it's worth, I'm not a native English speaker myself actually, I'm from Chile. Saludos amigo!


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 Post subject: Re: Old Irish help?
PostPosted: Thu 01 Jun 2017 10:53 am 
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Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2011 12:06 pm
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:good:

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


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 Post subject: Re: Old Irish help?
PostPosted: Fri 02 Jun 2017 7:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed 31 May 2017 3:39 pm
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Ok! I have a few more:

Tadg
Sláine
Nechtan
Eochaid

I've heard many variations of these. I would assume many if not all are local/modern. Any help on some Old Irish pronunciation would be godsend!


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 Post subject: Re: Old Irish help?
PostPosted: Mon 05 Jun 2017 5:53 am 
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Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2011 12:06 pm
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Tadg > Tathgh (th as in "this" and "gh" is that garling sound https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_velar_fricative you can listen to it by clicking on the link on the right side)

Sláine > slaan-eh (roughly)

Nechtan >nyekh-tuhn (kh is that throaty sound https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_velar_fricative )

Eochaid > EH-oo-khuhth (the "th" sound is as in "this" but palatalised... hard to explain since it doesn't exist in English)

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


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 Post subject: Re: Old Irish help?
PostPosted: Mon 05 Jun 2017 9:18 pm 
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Joined: Wed 31 May 2017 3:39 pm
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Thank you so much. I have two questions though:

The a in your spelling "Slaa-eh" is the same as in "van" or does it have the "ay" sound as in "day"?

The u in "nyekh-tuhn" and "Eh-oo-khuhth" is that of the word "number" or "slum" or that of "huge" or "music"?

Thanks again for the help!


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 Post subject: Re: Old Irish help?
PostPosted: Tue 06 Jun 2017 10:50 pm 
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Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2011 12:06 pm
Posts: 2372
Quote:
The a in your spelling "Slaa-eh" is the same as in "van" or does it have the "ay" sound as in "day"?


it's a long ah-sound. The OI sound doesn't really exist in English.

Quote:
The u in "nyekh-tuhn" and "Eh-oo-khuhth" is that of the word "number" or "slum" or that of "huge" or "music"?


I use "uh" to transcribe the "a" sound as in "alone", for example. It's complicated to transcribe Irish pronunciation (Modern as well as Old Irish) with an English-like transcription, since the sounds of English and of Irish are sooo different. But almost nobody can read the International Phonetic Alphabet so I have to do this way...

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


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