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PostPosted: Mon 15 May 2017 8:43 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon 26 Jun 2017 7:48 pm 
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Labhrás wrote:
Some errors, mura miste leat:
43) I am my brothers keeper
Is coimeádaí mo dhearthár mé.

I think what might be going on hear is that "coimeádaí mo dhearthár" is being understood as indefinite, it is possible. I've definitely heard people from Conamara do it, I'll try to get a written reference (Bríd, could something like "coimeádaí mo dhearthár" be understood as "a keeper of my brother" to you?)

Quote:
162) The greatest of these is love. (Cor. 13.13)
Is é an grá an ní is mó. (direct quote)
Is é an grá an ní ba mhó acu. (paraphrase)

I think the second meaning is like "It's love which would be the greatest of these".

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PostPosted: Tue 27 Jun 2017 2:06 pm 
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An Lon Dubh wrote:
I've definitely heard people from Conamara do it, I'll try to get a written reference (Bríd, could something like "coimeádaí mo dhearthár" be understood as "a keeper of my brother" to you?)


Coimeádaí is not really a word we'd use here, like I wouldn't know what it means without using a dictionary. I think the sentence structure is correct, I'd get the intended meaning from it.


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PostPosted: Wed 28 Jun 2017 6:59 pm 
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Bríd Mhór wrote:
An Lon Dubh wrote:
I've definitely heard people from Conamara do it, I'll try to get a written reference (Bríd, could something like "coimeádaí mo dhearthár" be understood as "a keeper of my brother" to you?)


Coimeádaí is not really a word we'd use here, like I wouldn't know what it means without using a dictionary.

What would you use for a "keeper"?

Bríd Mhór wrote:
I think the sentence structure is correct, I'd get the intended meaning from it.

Would you use this structure? Have you heard it?

Let's see some other sentences.

I'm my mother's daughter (and/or: I'm a daughter of my mother)

Is iníon mo mháthar mé. vs.
Iníon mo mháthar mé.
Is mise iníon mo mháthar
Is mé iníon mo mháthar
Is iníon le mo mháthair mé.


You're my son's friend (and/or: You're a friend of my son)

Is caraid mo mhic thú. vs.
Caraid mo mhic thú.
Is tusa caraid mo mhic.
Is tú caraid mo mhic.
Is caraid do mo mhac thú.


You're the priester's son (and/or: You're a prierster's son)

Is mac an tsagairt thú. vs.
Mac an tsagairt thú.
Is tusa mac an tsagairt.
Is tú mac an tsagairt.
Is mac don sagart thú.



(I’d expect the first versions to be wrong.
Despite of that, I'd expect version 2 to be correct, comparing it with similar "Mo cheol thú!", so why not "Barr mo cheoil thú!" or things like that. (but never "Is barr mo cheoil thú")
The third, 4th, 5th are normal sentences, albeit with different meanings.)


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PostPosted: Thu 29 Jun 2017 1:20 pm 
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I think among some speakers now, phrases like "iníon mo mháthar" aren't understood as definite (or rather, don't have to be definite), it can mean "a daughter of my mother".

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The dialect I use is Munster Irish, particularly Cork Irish, so words or phrases I use might not be correct for other areas.:D

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PostPosted: Thu 29 Jun 2017 6:02 pm 
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Labhrás wrote:
What would you use for a "keeper"?


Discussing who somebody's keeper is is not one of those conversations we have over the turf cutting and seaweed harvesting :LOL: . It's not a common word in Irish or English conversation in that biblical context. We'd have gate keeper, or lighthouse keeper maybe, that would probably simply be fear an gheata or fear an teachsolais. But as my brother's keeper I'd probably use cosantóir. Audrey wanted to use the official Biobla Naofa anywhere there was a biblical quote so that's why coimeádaí was used.

An Lon Dubh wrote:
I think among some speakers now, phrases like "iníon mo mháthar" aren't understood as definite (or rather, don't have to be definite), it can mean "a daughter of my mother".


Ahh I see now what you mean. It can be ambiguous in Irish. But it's the meaning the requester wants that will have that meaning for him/her.


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PostPosted: Thu 29 Jun 2017 6:49 pm 
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Quote:
Ahh I see now what you mean. It can be ambiguous in Irish. But it's the meaning the requester wants that will have that meaning for him/her.

Ah thanks! :good:

For older speakers in Munster it's always a definite phrase, but I had dim memories of it being ambiguous in Conamara.

Quote:
Discussing who somebody's keeper is is not one of those conversations we have over the turf cutting and seaweed harvesting

:LOL:

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The dialect I use is Munster Irish, particularly Cork Irish, so words or phrases I use might not be correct for other areas.:D

Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


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PostPosted: Thu 29 Jun 2017 6:58 pm 
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An Lon Dubh wrote:
Labhrás wrote:
Some errors, mura miste leat:
43) I am my brothers keeper
Is coimeádaí mo dhearthár mé.

I think what might be going on hear is that "coimeádaí mo dhearthár" is being understood as indefinite, it is possible. I've definitely heard people from Conamara do it, I'll try to get a written reference (Bríd, could something like "coimeádaí mo dhearthár" be understood as "a keeper of my brother" to you?)

Quote:
162) The greatest of these is love. (Cor. 13.13)
Is é an grá an ní is mó. (direct quote)
Is é an grá an ní ba mhó acu. (paraphrase)

I think the second meaning is like "It's love which would be the greatest of these".


Interestingly, regarding the quote from Corinthians, it was one of the editors, a native speaker, who suggested the second (paraphrased) version.

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Thu 29 Jun 2017 10:00 pm 
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Yeah, the first sounds like a direct translation (not a literal one, but an exact one). However the second sounds more like how it would be phrased "had it been" a traditional Irish phrase rather than a quote from the bible.

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The dialect I use is Munster Irish, particularly Cork Irish, so words or phrases I use might not be correct for other areas.:D

Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


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PostPosted: Fri 21 Jul 2017 5:46 pm 
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Comhghairdeas is céad!! :good:

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