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PostPosted: Tue 04 Jul 2017 2:21 pm 
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Werewoof wrote:
Hi again!

It just occurred to me, that if I were to say something like "Who I wish you were", which is rather incomplete sounding but could be pulled off in English, I don't think I have to skills to accurately predict what it would be yet.

Here are my attempts thus far:

"Cé a theastaíonn uaim a raibh tú"
"Cé a thograím a raibh tú"

Beyond that, I'm not sure. Could somebody potentially enlighten me? If I come across a situation like this again, I'd like to remember how it could be approached.

Go raibh maith ag aon duine,

-Jon


The sentence structure is perfect with its two relative clauses, but the second should be direct as well:
Cé a theastaíonn uaim a bhí tú ... or conditional (which is rather the sense of "were" here, not past tense) Cé a theastíonn uaim a bheifeá ...

But there's another, even more important problem:
You can't say "Cé a bhí tú" for "Who you were" or "Cé a bheifeá" for "Who you would/should be."
It's like "Tá sé fear", a very common error by learners.
Irish has two forms for "to be", the copula "is" and the verb "bí" (with its forms tá, bhí, bheadh, etc.).
In such basic sentences, usually the copula is used: Is fear mé. = I'm a man. (or: Fear is ea mé.)
You cannot use "tá" instead and just add a noun or pronoun.
But you could use the preposition "i":
Fear atá ionam. = I'm a man., Cé atá ionat? = Who are you?.

So, back to your sentence:
Cé a theastaíonn uaim a bheadh ionat? = Who do I wish you would be?
an té a theataíonn uaim a bheadh ionat = the person I wish you would be


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PostPosted: Tue 04 Jul 2017 6:55 pm 
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Awesome, thanks!

Labhrás wrote:

The sentence structure is perfect with its two relative clauses, but the second should be direct as well:
Cé a theastaíonn uaim a bhí tú ... or conditional (which is rather the sense of "were" here, not past tense) Cé a theastíonn uaim a bheifeá ...

But there's another, even more important problem:
You can't say "Cé a bhí tú" for "Who you were" or "Cé a bheifeá" for "Who you would/should be."
It's like "Tá sé fear", a very common error by learners.



Oh that's right! You have to use the copula as a sort of identifier, not bí.

Labhrás wrote:
Irish has two forms for "to be", the copula "is" and the verb "bí" (with its forms tá, bhí, bheadh, etc.).
In such basic sentences, usually the copula is used: Is fear mé. = I'm a man. (or: Fear is ea mé.)
You cannot use "tá" instead and just add a noun or pronoun.
But you could use the preposition "i":


Oh man, I'm really going to have to remember that last bit there especially. :) I think I've read even about this before, but my brain threw it out because I couldn't think of a particular application for it. This is great.

Labhrás wrote:
Fear atá ionam. = I'm a man., Cé atá ionat? = Who are you?.

So, back to your sentence:
Cé a theastaíonn uaim a bheadh ionat? = Who do I wish you would be?
an té a theataíonn uaim a bheadh ionat = the person I wish you would be

[/quote]
Huh, I don't ever recall learning about "an té" before, but I think I have a feeling of where it might be used. A question about it: While it's grammatically correct to say "don té", I think meaning "to the person", does this operate in--for lack of better words--a demonstrative manner? Is it interchangeable with duine in certain cases, or not at all given different implications? I don't think Nualeargais has anything on it but I'm not sure.

Thanks again!

-Jon


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PostPosted: Tue 04 Jul 2017 6:59 pm 
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Werewoof wrote:
Huh, I don't ever recall learning about "an té" before, but I think I have a feeling of where it might be used. A question about it: While it's grammatically correct to say "don té", I think meaning "to the person", does this operate in--for lack of better words--a demonstrative manner? Is it interchangeable with duine in certain cases, or not at all given different implications? I don't think Nualeargais has anything on it but I'm not sure.


Wait, I just found something on Nualeargais, saying that "an té" means "the one", so "don té" probably means "to the one". This makes a bit more sense now, but I might still be wrong.


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PostPosted: Tue 11 Jul 2017 4:58 pm 
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Mise atá ann!

I have have attempted more titles. Perhaps one day I'll attempt some kind of essay. (Actually, I really should do that.)

As Béarla / As Gaeilge

"Gold Does not Compare" / "Ní Óir a Chur i gComparáid"
"When You Were Sleeping Here" / "Nuair a Raibh Tu i do Chodlata Anseo"
"Rain on the Chapel" / "Báisteach ar an Séipéal"
"Mary's Mantle" / "Casal Mhuire"
"Carrageen between the Rocks / "Carraigín idir na Clocha"
"The Clear Sky" / "An Spéir Glan"
"The Whiskey Passers" / "Na Mhuintir atá Fuisce a Thug"


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PostPosted: Tue 11 Jul 2017 5:00 pm 
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Agh, sorry, wanted to preview but hit submit mindlessly.

What I was going to say next in the previous post: Could someone please verify my attempts? I'm hoping one day I can do this with more confidence, but right now I'm still in the budding stage, I fear.

Thanks a million!

-Jon


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PostPosted: Tue 11 Jul 2017 6:16 pm 
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Werewoof wrote:
"Gold Does not Compare" / "Ní Óir a Chur i gComparáid"


There's something missing. Ní alone can't introduce verbal noun phrases, óir is genitive, here ór should be used
Perhaps: Ní Féidir Ór a Chur i gComparáid = Gold cannot be compared.

Werewoof wrote:
"When You Were Sleeping Here" / "Nuair a Raibh Tu i do Chodlata Anseo"


Nuair a Raibh Tú i do Chodladh Anseo

Werewoof wrote:
"Rain on the Chapel" / "Báisteach ar an Séipéal"
"Mary's Mantle" / "Casal Mhuire"


Muire = Jesus' mother,
Máire = any other Mary

Werewoof wrote:
"Carrageen between the Rocks / "Carraigín idir na Clocha"
"The Clear Sky" / "An Spéir Glan"
"The Whiskey Passers" / "Na Mhuintir atá Fuisce a Thug"


muintir is a singular noun, so an mhuintir

I don't understand exactly what "whiskey passers" are, but ...

... atá fuisce a thug doesn't make sense, atá ag tabhairt fuisce = who are giving Whiskey, perhaps?
As a general noun for people doing something lucht is often used, followed by a simple verbal noun phrase:
Lucht Fuisce a Thabhairt or followed by a genitive of the verbal noun: Lucht Tugtha Fuisce


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PostPosted: Tue 11 Jul 2017 7:15 pm 
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Thanks again, Labhrás!

Labhrás wrote:

There's something missing. Ní alone can't introduce verbal noun phrases, óir is genitive, here ór should be used
Perhaps: Ní Féidir Ór a Chur i gComparáid = Gold cannot be compared.


Alright, thanks for this bit: your phrase reads well, too. Would it, in some way, equate to a phrase like "Not even gold (compares to [something implied but unsaid])"? It seems like a big stretch, but I don't know how to parse something like that. That might just be too much implication without proper context.

I was also kind of wondering about ór; óir didn't seem correct somehow. Thanks!


Labhrás wrote:
Nuair a Raibh Tú i do Chodladh Anseo


D'oh, simple misspelling. I even knew that. :facepalm:

Labhrás wrote:
Muire = Jesus' mother,
Máire = any other Mary


Awesome, got it right. I'll assume the previous one was correct as well.


Labhrás wrote:
muintir is a singular noun, so an mhuintir


Oh, right you are, thanks!

Labhrás wrote:
I don't understand exactly what "whiskey passers" are, but ...



A very brief, contorted way of suggesting camaraderie among friends, sharing the bottle, hopefully with their own glasses. ;) It's not a clear way of saying it, though. Think "bread winners", "game players", or "ring bearers".

Labhrás wrote:
... atá fuisce a thug doesn't make sense, atá ag tabhairt fuisce = who are giving Whiskey, perhaps?


To tach other is implied, so I'm going to guess le chéile would be required. I was wondering if I should omit it or not, the initial goal being to form the sentence with some English brevity. I'm finding that to be much harder every time I try. :)

Labhrás wrote:
As a general noun for people doing something lucht is often used, followed by a simple verbal noun phrase:
Lucht Fuisce a Thabhairt or followed by a genitive of the verbal noun: Lucht Tugtha Fuisce


Oh, okay! I will have to remember lucht instead for groups, etc. I suppose I could also use "dream". Was also wondering if I should have used thabhairt. I always seem to work against my intuition. :nail:

I feel I still need to learn more about the second method, the genitive of verbal nouns. But given this information, and suggesting that the folks in question are passing the bottle of whiskey around (to each other), would "Lucht Fuisce a Thabhairt le Chéile" and/or "Lucht Tugtha Fuisce le Chéile" (or "Lucht Tugtha le Chéile Fuisce ", not totally certain about the order) be correct?

Thanks again,

-Jon


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PostPosted: Tue 25 Jul 2017 6:05 pm 
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At long last, my first real exercises!

Over the past month or so, I've been reading Nancy Stenson's Irish grammar and workbooks. The first was great, but I have a feeling I'm going to love the second.

I'm on caibidil a hAon, "Relative Clauses I".

On exercise 3, the instructions are:
Quote:
Combine any sentences which share the same noun to form a relative clause that identifies the noun more precisely.
E.g., Ta an bád a fheicim dearg or Feicim and bád atá dearg.


And below are the provided sentences, many of which I have tried to order by subject or something close, though there is minor scattering:

Quote:
Feicim an cailín.
Is maith liom an cailín.
Tá Gaeilge ag an gcailín.
Ní aithním an cailín.
Beidh an cailín ag an scoil.
Feiceann an cailín an doras.
Tá an doras gorm.
Cheannaigh an cailín nuachtán.
Léann an cailín an nuachtán.
Léim an nuachtán.
Ní fheicim an nuachtán.
Éisteann an cailín leis an gceol.
Tá an ceol go maith.
Éistim leis an gceol.
Téann an bád go sciobtha.
Tá an bád dearg.
D’imigh an bád go Sasana.
Ní fheicim an bád.
Feicim an bád.
Feicim an ceoltóir.
Tá an ceoltóir óg.
Tá an ceoltóir go deas.
Ní chloisim an ceoltóir.
Bhí an ceoltóir anseo aréir.
Bhí an ceoltóir ag seinm an veidhlín.
Seinneann an ceoltóir go maith.
Ceannaíonn an ceoltóir leabhair.
Léann an cailín leabhair.
Tá na leabhair daor.
Níor léigh mé na leabhair.
Is maith liom na leabhair.
An bhfeiceann tú na leabhair?
Feicim páistí.
Is leatsa na páistí.
Tá na páistí mór.
Tá na páistí dána.
Is maith liom an veidhlín.
Bhí an veidhlín daor.
Is liomsa an veidhlín.


And here are my attempts:

Feicim an cailín atá Gaeilge aici – I see the girl who speaks Irish
Is maith liom an cailn a bheidh ag an scoil - I like the girl who will be at the school
Ní aithním an cailín a éisteann leis an gceol – I don’t recognize the girl who listens to the music
Cheannaigh an cailín a fheiceann an doras nuachtán – The girl who sees the door bought a newspaper
Léim an nuachtán a léann an cailín – I read the newspaper the girl reads.
Ní fheicim an nuachtán a cheannaigh an cailín – I don’t see the newspaper the girl bought.
Feiceann an cailín an doras atá gorm – The girl sees the blue door
Feiceann an cailín an doras ghorm - The girl sees the blue door
Feicim an bád a d’imigh go Sasana – I saw the boat that left for England
Ní fheicim an bád a théann go sciobtha – I don’t see the boat that is going fast
Ní chloisim an ceoltóir óg a bhí ag seinm an veidhlín – I didn’t listen to the young musician who was playing the violin

I'm hoping I could please get some verification on my attempts, as I the answer key only gives possible solutions, a few of which I've seen and tried not to imitate too closely, for the sake of branching out.

Could someone please take the time and examine these?

Sláinte,

-Jon


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PostPosted: Tue 25 Jul 2017 8:16 pm 
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Werewoof wrote:
I'm on caibidil a hAon, "Relative Clauses I".

What a coincidence -- we just did this chapter (and chapters three and four as well) in a grammar class I just helped run

Werewoof wrote:
Feicim an cailín atá Gaeilge aici – I see the girl who speaks Irish
Feiceann an cailín an doras ghorm - The girl sees the blue door

These two are wrong. When you get to chapter four, you will see why the first one is wrong. The second one is just a gender problem.
I won't tell you the correct versions unless you ask, as I am guessing you want to think about them yourself.

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PostPosted: Tue 25 Jul 2017 8:19 pm 
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Werewoof wrote:
Labhrás wrote:
Nuair a Raibh Tú i do Chodladh Anseo


D'oh, simple misspelling. I even knew that. :facepalm:


unless I am mistaken this should be

Nuair a Bhí Tú i Do Chodladh Anseo

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