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PostPosted: Wed 21 Jun 2017 6:29 pm 
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Dia daiobh arís!

Once again, I am writing titles for songs, attempting to further my knowledge of Gaeilge as I go.

-SEASON 1, EPISODE 2 - Jon Attempts to Translate Titles, Part 3-

As Béarla / As Gaeilge

"Under the Blackthorns" "Faoina Airneoga"

I'm not sure if I'm missing any lenition or eclipsis before Airneoga, so I was hoping someone could please correct me if I'm wrong?

Sláinte mhaith,

-Jon


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PostPosted: Wed 21 Jun 2017 10:39 pm 
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It should be Faoi na hAirneoga AFAIK.

"Faoina" is not actually faoi + na, but faoi + a. So one could say "faoina bhord" for "under his table".

it would be "Faoina airneog" for "under his blackthorn" and "faoina hairneog" for "under her blackthorn".

Wait for more input to be sure.


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PostPosted: Wed 21 Jun 2017 11:15 pm 
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Thanks for the reply!

You know, I think you are correct. On Nualeargais, it actually differentiates between the articles. "Faoi" + "an" = "faoin", but "faoi" + "na" = "faoi na". I even read it before writing; I guess I just completely gleaned over the space between "faoi" and "na". (I manage to do stupid things these days)

Also on Nualeargais, on the page for the initial mutations (na hathruithe tosaigh), it says that "h-prefix is only used preceding words beginning in a vowel. It generally serves to simplify pronunciation, if 2 vowels clash and neither lenition nor eclipsis are necessary." It also mentions that the h-prefix is used in the genitive singular feminine case, though "airneoga" is plural feminine. However, "na" and "airneoga" do clash, do it would seem fitting to use the h-prefix. Additionally, upon searching "faoi na" on Teanglann, various phrases where the nouns are prefixed with an 'h' can be seen. All this leads me to think you are indeed correct!

So aha. Thanks again, :D

-Jon


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PostPosted: Thu 22 Jun 2017 6:08 pm 
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Gumbi wrote:
It should be Faoi na hAirneoga AFAIK.

:good:


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PostPosted: Fri 30 Jun 2017 1:42 am 
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Dia daiobh arís!

I do realize that a lot of of my tries are for strange song titles, but that's my only real useful outlet for Gaeilge as of right now in my life, though I do hope that changes soon.

Anyway, until I start to really pick it up, I will be cancelling my episodes. Here is yet another song title I would love verification for:

As Béarla / As Gaeilge

"An Ainnir ón dTír na Sneachta" "The Maiden from the Land of Snow"

I'm fairly confident this is close, but I'm never sure. Every time I figure out something as Gaeilge, I'm thrown another loop.

Please reply! Sláinte mhaith,

-Jon


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PostPosted: Fri 30 Jun 2017 11:58 am 
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Werewoof wrote:
Dia daiobh arís!

I do realize that a lot of of my tries are for strange song titles, but that's my only real useful outlet for Gaeilge as of right now in my life, though I do hope that changes soon.

Anyway, until I start to really pick it up, I will be cancelling my episodes. Here is yet another song title I would love verification for:

As Béarla / As Gaeilge

"An Ainnir ón dTír na Sneachta" "The Maiden from the Land of Snow"

I'm fairly confident this is close, but I'm never sure. Every time I figure out something as Gaeilge, I'm thrown another loop.

Please reply! Sláinte mhaith,

-Jon


"ón dTír" is perfect for West Munster Irish, but in Standard Irish and in other dialects "ón Tír" is used.

Sneachta is masculine, so "Tír an tSneachta" = The Land of The Snow"
But there would be two articles "ón tír an". This is impossible in Irish
For simple "Land of Snow", Tír Sneachta is OK, The Land of Snow, An Tír Sneachta, so ... from the Land of Snow, ... ón Tír Sneachta


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PostPosted: Fri 30 Jun 2017 4:28 pm 
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Labhrás wrote:

"ón dTír" is perfect for West Munster Irish, but in Standard Irish and in other dialects "ón Tír" is used.

Sneachta is masculine, so "Tír an tSneachta" = The Land of The Snow


Werewoof, I think Labhrás forgot to add this version, based on the above:

...ó Thír an tSneachta, which, to me, is more natural than ...ón Tír Sneachta


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PostPosted: Fri 30 Jun 2017 5:30 pm 
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Labhrás wrote:
"ón dTír" is perfect for West Munster Irish, but in Standard Irish and in other dialects "ón Tír" is used.

Awesome, thanks for this!

Labhrás wrote:
Sneachta is masculine, so "Tír an tSneachta" = The Land of The Snow"

Oh duh, you're absolutely correct. The article would make it "the Snow". That reminds me as well, I need to keep an eye on gender cases and get a better grip on when lenition and eclipsis occur.

Labhrás wrote:
But there would be two articles "ón tír an". This is impossible in Irish

Very useful note here. Gotta remember this one :)

Labhrás wrote:
For simple "Land of Snow", Tír Sneachta is OK, The Land of Snow, An Tír Sneachta, so ... from the Land of Snow, ... ón Tír Sneachta


Okay, thanks! These do indeed look correct. Funny, I almost typed the last one thinking it was correct and then my brain turned on me in favor of the incorrect option. :nail:

Errigal wrote:

Werewoof, I think Labhrás forgot to add this version, based on the above:

...ó Thír an tSneachta, which, to me, is more natural than ...ón Tír Sneachta


Oh wow, it actually does! Thanks for this! That makes sense too, because ó causes lenition without an article, eclipsis if singular (I might be wrong, I know in the different dialects it can change a bit).

Thank you both for your immense help! :)

-Jon


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PostPosted: Fri 30 Jun 2017 6:25 pm 
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Errigal wrote:
Labhrás wrote:

"ón dTír" is perfect for West Munster Irish, but in Standard Irish and in other dialects "ón Tír" is used.

Sneachta is masculine, so "Tír an tSneachta" = The Land of The Snow


Werewoof, I think Labhrás forgot to add this version, based on the above:

...ó Thír an tSneachta, which, to me, is more natural than ...ón Tír Sneachta


Yes, I forgot ;)

Or rather I was puzzled by the amount of Google results for "tír sneachta" compared with "tír an tsneachta".
But as I see now, most of these results are just copies of Vicipéid's translation of a Japanese book title
( 雪国/Yukiguni by Yasunari Kawabata, "Snow Country" in its English translation)

Ach Cathal Ó Searcaigh a scríobh in "Ag Tnúth leis an tSola":
Quote:
Tá an leathanach bán seo dálta thír an tsneachta ag mealladh an pháiste atá istigh ionam amach lena chuma féin a chur ar lom na cruthaitheachta .

Sounds better :)


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PostPosted: Tue 04 Jul 2017 1:50 am 
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Hi again!

It just occurred to me, that if I were to say something like "Who I wish you were", which is rather incomplete sounding but could be pulled off in English, I don't think I have to skills to accurately predict what it would be yet.

Here are my attempts thus far:

"Cé a theastaíonn uaim a raibh tú"
"Cé a thograím a raibh tú"

Beyond that, I'm not sure. Could somebody potentially enlighten me? If I come across a situation like this again, I'd like to remember how it could be approached.

Go raibh maith ag aon duine,

-Jon


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