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PostPosted: Mon 30 Jan 2017 4:52 am 
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Dia Daiobh,

Werewoof is ainm dom! Le do thoil, ceart aon rud a rá liom go mícheart.

I know this isn't where introductions happen, but if it's alright with everyone, I'd like to just make one single forum post to ask all of my questions--and I will likely have several--as I continue to learn Irish. Rather slowly. :) I'd rather not clutter the forums with a bunch of posts.

Jon is ainm fíor dom, and I have been in a Celtic band for almost 6 years now, having listened to the aforementioned band since 2010. I play mandolin, Irish Bouzouki, guitar, a wee bit of fiddle, and I have dabbled in writing experimental reels and jigs and the like. Now, I am determined to eventually learn Irish to fluency, and sure as heck learn it well enough before I visit Ireland. Not that it would do me much good to use outside the Gaeltacht... it's more a gesture of respect.

I will try my best not to ask questions I can just Google the answers for, or look up in a dictionary. However, an gramadach na Gaeilge is my biggest hurdle, and I hope to get help with proofing my own little exercises as Gaeilge. I'm looking for familiar and predictable patterns to efficiently and quickly learn Irish, amidst obair scoile agus obair post. I talk to myself a lot ag mo phost, given that being a produce clerk can cause vegetable-induced conversations and rantings. ;) Nothing unlike my usual gardening routine.

I first want to capture some things I say to mo chairde torthaí agus glasraí, and to unlucky customers who can't escape my greetings. I find I learn better from experience than text-books. :D

So, if you all don't mind me doing so,

-SEASON 1, EPISODE 1 - Adventures On the Job and Concerning Unlucky Customers, Part 1-

I am completely open to corrections, suggestions, and alternatives! Even the deletion of this post should it be unfitting. But I would really like reasons for corrections so that I can observe them for future attempts. I've noticed Teanglann and Focloir word things much differently than I anticipate.


As Béarla / as Gaeilge

"Hi / hey, how are you doing today?" "Dia duit, conas atá tu inniu?"
"Hi / hey guys, how are you doing today?" "Dia daoibh, conas atá sibh inniu?"
"How are you doing, guys?" "Conas atá sibh, a chairde?"
"Are you finding everything okay?" "An bhfuil gach rud ceart go leor agat?" ???
"Do you need help finding anything today?" "An dteastaíonn cabhair aon rud a fháil uait?" ???
"If you find anything you need, just let me know!" "Ma theastaíonn aon rud uait, cuir in iúl dom é!" ???

That's all for now. Please, if you have the time agus carthanas fút, help me not be too terrible at Irish!

Buíchos go leor nó (má is fearr leat) go raibh maith agat,

-Jon


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PostPosted: Mon 30 Jan 2017 8:19 pm 
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Werewoof wrote:
Le do thoil, ceart aon rud a rá liom go mícheart.

This one might be a bit tricky to say elegantly, but here is my go:

Ceartaigí botún ar bith a gheobhaidh sibh ina bhfuil scríofa agam, le bhur dtoil
(Please correct any mistake y'all find in what I've written)

Werewoof wrote:
an gramadach na Gaeilge is my biggest hurdle

How ironic to mention this, but grammatically you cannot have an article before an already definite noun phrase. Thus it should be simply gramadach na Gaeilge


Werewoof wrote:
"Are you finding everything okay?" "An bhfuil gach rud ceart go leor agat?" ???
"Do you need help finding anything today?" "An dteastaíonn cabhair aon rud a fháil uait?" ???
"If you find anything you need, just let me know!" "Ma theastaíonn aon rud uait, cuir in iúl dom é!" ???

Pretty good!! One thing tripping you up here is that "an dteastaíonn uait" only works with verb phrases, whereas with nouns we use "ag teastáil uait"
Here are my attempts:

Are you finding everything okay? An bhfuil ag éirí leat/libh teacht ar a bhfuil uait/uaibh?
Do you need help finding anything today? An bhfuil cabhair uait/uaibh teacht ar rud éigin inniu?
If you find anything you need, just let me know! Má tá aon rud [ag teastáil] uait/uaibh, cuir in iúl dom é!

Here are some other possibilities,
An bhféadfainn cabhrú leat/libh teacht ar rud éigin? (Could I help you find anything?)
An bhfuil rud éigin [go háirithe] á lorg agat/agaibh? (Is there anything [specific] you're looking for?)


Of course, I make mistakes, too! So see what others have to say.

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PostPosted: Tue 31 Jan 2017 5:51 am 
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Fantastic! Thanks for the reply and corrections :D

Cúmhaí wrote:
Ceartaigí botún ar bith a gheobhaidh sibh ina bhfuil scríofa agam, le bhur dtoil
(Please correct any mistake y'all find in what I've written)


I have a question about "ceartaigí": I assume it means something about "making right", but I can't find the definition in Teanglann or Focloir, but I see elsewhere the word does get used. What does the word typically stand for?

I'm going to guess that this sentence transliteralates to "Correct a mistake (any) you guys will find in what was written at me, with you guys' desire"... does that sound about right? I'm trying to think in the Irish manner as a way of "housebreaking" my English-language thought process. :)

Cúmhaí wrote:
How ironic to mention this, but grammatically you cannot have an article before an already definite noun phrase. Thus it should be simply gramadach na Gaeilge


Okay, cool! It actually sounds more appropriate without the "an" article, too.

Cúmhaí wrote:
Pretty good!! One thing tripping you up here is that "an dteastaíonn uait" only works with verb phrases, whereas with nouns we use "ag teastáil uait"


Thanks, I'm really trying! I will study your attempts, but I will still continue searching for further input. :D

Go raibh maith agat as an gcabhair,

-Jon


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PostPosted: Tue 31 Jan 2017 2:16 pm 
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Cúmhaí wrote:
One thing tripping you up here is that "an dteastaíonn uait" only works with verb phrases, whereas with nouns we use "ag teastáil uait"


No, teastaíonn cabhair uait is okay.
There's no real difference between teastaíonn and ag teastáil (besides habitual vs. progressive aspect: ag teastáil means now, in this very moment, while teastaíonn means anytime from now till the end of their business connection.
But the original sentence was clumsy. I'd put the verbal noun phrase (rud a fháil) at the end.
And I'd insert le or chun before the verbal noun phrase: cabhair ... chun rud a fháil, help to get a thing
(Edit: This isn't necessary.)

An dteastaiónn cabhair uait (chun) rud éigin a fháil? - Do you need help to get/find something?
or An dteastaíonn cabhair uait (chun) teacht ar rud éigin? - Do you need help to find something?
Of course An bhfuil cabhair uait ... is okay, too.


Is giorra cabhair an díoltóra ná an doras. ;)


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PostPosted: Thu 02 Feb 2017 5:29 am 
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Labhrás wrote:
No, teastaíonn cabhair uait is okay.


Okay, cool, thanks!

Werewoof wrote:
There's no real difference between teastaíonn and ag teastáil (besides habitual vs. progressive aspect: ag teastáil means now, in this very moment, while teastaíonn means anytime from now till the end of their business connection.


Interesting. So, if you were in the spur of a moment, like during a cataclysmic event were everything seems to be happening now, you would more likely use ag teastáil, but in a more relaxed setting, an dteastaíonn would more likely be used?


Werewoof wrote:
But the original sentence was clumsy. I'd put the verbal noun phrase (rud a fháil) at the end.
And I'd insert le or chun before the verbal noun phrase: cabhair ... chun rud a fháil, help to get a thing
(Edit: This isn't necessary.)

An dteastaiónn cabhair uait (chun) rud éigin a fháil? - Do you need help to get/find something?
or An dteastaíonn cabhair uait (chun) teacht ar rud éigin? - Do you need help to find something?
Of course An bhfuil cabhair uait ... is okay, too.


Okay, so "chun" sort of equates to "to", and IIRC "le" is the word for "with". I think that's about right??


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PostPosted: Thu 02 Feb 2017 9:20 am 
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Werewoof wrote:

Okay, so "chun" sort of equates to "to", and IIRC "le" is the word for "with". I think that's about right??


Literally, yes. But with verbal noun phrases both (chun and le) mean "in order to"


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PostPosted: Thu 02 Feb 2017 5:44 pm 
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Labhrás wrote:
No, teastaíonn cabhair uait is okay.

go raibh maith agat, a Labhráis. ba mhór an bris orainn mura mbeadh tú ann :)
ach tá ceist agam
Tá a fhios agam gur féidir "Teastaíonn uaim lón a ithe lasmuigh" a rá, ach an féidir é sin a rá le "ag teastáil"?

Werewoof wrote:
Interesting. So, if you were in the spur of a moment, like during a cataclysmic event were everything seems to be happening now, you would more likely use ag teastáil, but in a more relaxed setting, an dteastaíonn would more likely be used?


Honestly I am not sure that distinction is meaningful. Yes, they are in different tenses, but that has more to do with the context within an utterance than the context in the greater world. With other verbs it would be more meaningful, but in this case the distinction is really minor (or appears so to me). The bigger distinction to pay attention to is the line between "want" and "need" which seems to be less clear in Irish.

Werewoof wrote:
I have a question about "ceartaigí": I assume it means something about "making right", but I can't find the definition in Teanglann or Focloir, but I see elsewhere the word does get used. What does the word typically stand for?


Look it up using the singular imperative "ceartaigh!" instead of the plural imperative "ceartaigí" or by using the verbal noun "ceartú"

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PostPosted: Thu 02 Feb 2017 10:46 pm 
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Cúmhaí wrote:
Labhrás wrote:
No, teastaíonn cabhair uait is okay.

go raibh maith agat, a Labhráis. ba mhór an bris orainn mura mbeadh tú ann :)
ach tá ceist agam
Tá a fhios agam gur féidir "Teastaíonn uaim lón a ithe lasmuigh" a rá, ach an féidir é sin a rá le "ag teastáil"?


B’fhéidir:
Tá sé ag teastáil uaim lón a ithe lasmuigh.


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PostPosted: Thu 09 Feb 2017 5:10 am 
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Tá aithreachas orm faoi an righneas! Tá scoil ag ithe mo chuid ama ar fad: Taím ar bís chun filleadh foghlaim ar ais arís! :)

Sorry about the delay! School has been eating all my time. I'm itching to get back to learning again! :)

Mar is gnách, ar aghaidh libh chun dearmaid a cheartú ar fad. Tá bealach faaaaaaada agam chun Gaeilge a fhoghlaim... taím cuibheasach i bhfad ó foirfe.

As usual, feel free to correct any mistakes. I have a looooong way to go before I learn Gaeilge... I'm quite far from perfect.

Seo anseo mo frasaí an t-am


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PostPosted: Thu 09 Feb 2017 5:11 am 
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Werewoof wrote:
Tá aithreachas orm faoi an righneas! Tá scoil ag ithe mo chuid ama ar fad: Taím ar bís chun filleadh foghlaim ar ais arís! :)

Sorry about the delay! School has been eating all my time. I'm itching to get back to learning again! :)

Mar is gnách, ar aghaidh libh chun dearmaid a cheartú ar fad. Tá bealach faaaaaaada agam chun Gaeilge a fhoghlaim... taím cuibheasach i bhfad ó foirfe.

As usual, feel free to correct any mistakes. I have a looooong way to go before I learn Gaeilge... I'm quite far from perfect.

Seo anseo mo frasaí an t-am



Ooooooooops, managed to post early. :nail:


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