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 Post subject: Re: Ceist faoi "á"
PostPosted: Mon 23 Jul 2018 6:55 pm 
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Bríd Mhór wrote:
Breandán wrote:
Bríd, how would _you_ say "Who would like tea? and who would like coffee?"

Good idea to write it big so I'd see it. :LOL:

Personally I'd say:
Cé 'tá 'g iarraidh tae, nó 'g iarraidh coffee?
including "agaibh" is optional in speech, but can be added to stress it.

And ...

Who would prefer tea?

a Bhríd ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Ceist faoi "á"
PostPosted: Mon 23 Jul 2018 6:58 pm 
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Labhrás wrote:
Bríd Mhór wrote:
Breandán wrote:
Bríd, how would _you_ say "Who would like tea? and who would like coffee?"

Good idea to write it big so I'd see it. :LOL:

Personally I'd say:
Cé 'tá 'g iarraidh tae, nó 'g iarraidh coffee?
including "agaibh" is optional in speech, but can be added to stress it.

And ...

Who would prefer tea?

a Bhríd ;)

:rofl:

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WARNING: Intermediate speaker - await further opinions, corrections and adjustments before acting on my advice.
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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 Post subject: Re: Ceist faoi "á"
PostPosted: Mon 23 Jul 2018 7:13 pm 
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Tea is the only option in my house. I hate coffee. :LOL:


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 Post subject: Re: Ceist faoi "á"
PostPosted: Mon 23 Jul 2018 7:14 pm 
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Bríd Mhór wrote:
Tea is the only option in my house. I hate coffee. :LOL:

:clap:

_________________

WARNING: Intermediate speaker - await further opinions, corrections and adjustments before acting on my advice.
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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 Post subject: Re: Ceist faoi "á"
PostPosted: Thu 26 Jul 2018 12:27 pm 
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Cé ar mhaith leis a déarfainn féin.

De réir GGBC 13.80 ní úsáidtear Cér ach in dhá chomhthéacs:

1- roimh díobh nuair atá gaol i gceist - Cér díobh thú?
2- roimh leis nuair atá únéireacht i gceist - Cér leis an teach in 1987?


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 Post subject: Re: Ceist faoi "á"
PostPosted: Thu 26 Jul 2018 5:17 pm 
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Errigal wrote:
Cé ar mhaith leis a déarfainn féin.

De réir GGBC 13.80 ní úsáidtear Cér ach in dhá chomhthéacs:

1- roimh díobh nuair atá gaol i gceist - Cér díobh thú?
2- roimh leis nuair atá únéireacht i gceist - Cér leis an teach in 1987?

Sin mar a shílfeá, ach ní raibh Labhrás aon ócáid dá úsáid a aimsiú sa gCorpas.

_________________

WARNING: Intermediate speaker - await further opinions, corrections and adjustments before acting on my advice.
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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 Post subject: Re: Ceist faoi "á"
PostPosted: Fri 27 Jul 2018 11:30 am 
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Is ionann cér agus cé ar, shílfinn.

Fuair mé sampla amháin: Tá "cé arbh áin leis" (= cérbh áil leis; "who wished") i dTobar na Gaedhilge.


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 Post subject: Re: Ceist faoi "á"
PostPosted: Fri 27 Jul 2018 4:37 pm 
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I wonder if it's one of those things where the relative particle aspect of it overcomes the copula part of it? Like would you say 'Cé ar thaitin sé leis' or "Cér thaitin sé leis'? I'd almost lean towards the former, since it's not part of the copula, tho I admit I'm not sure. I feel it could be the same case here?


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 Post subject: Re: Ceist faoi "á"
PostPosted: Fri 27 Jul 2018 8:01 pm 
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galaxyrocker wrote:
I wonder if it's one of those things where the relative particle aspect of it overcomes the copula part of it? Like would you say 'Cé ar thaitin sé leis' or "Cér thaitin sé leis'? I'd almost lean towards the former, since it's not part of the copula, tho I admit I'm not sure. I feel it could be the same case here?


I never thought about writing "cé ar" and I would tend to write always cér.
I'd think "cé ar" is old style orthography as "cé'r" and "cé'r'bh" is.

Phonologically, it is more natural to say /k´e: r/ than /k´e: ər/ because /ə/ usually is silent next to long vowels. So, there is no difference in pronunciation between cér and cé ar.

Acc. to GGBC (13.80) cér just occurs as indirect relative in Cér leis and Cér díobh thú.
But GGBC's short explanations are not convincing at all. :S
What happens in other cases of cé + indirect relative? (e.g. Cé( a)rbh áil leis)
Why is Cér leis é indirect relative at all? (Present tense Cé leis é isn't.)
Why should Cérbh é ... be direct (!) relative? (Present tense Cé hé ... isn't. Direct relative of copula in past tense is ba/ab in other instances.
Other past tense copula forms in -r(b/bh) aren't relative: níorbh, gurbh, etc.

Acc. to FGB there is no such limitation to cér leis/díobh because there are other examples: Cér uaidh é? Cér chas é?


BTW:
Thanks to David who mentioned in an e-mail forms like
Cé hé gurb eól dó neart t’fheirgese? Who knoweth the power of thy anger? (P. Ua Laoghaire)

Standardized: Cé hé arb eol dó ...

So we get:
"Who likes" - Cé hé ar maith leis ...
"Who would like" - Cé hé ar mhaith leis ...
"Who should" - Cé hé ar cheart dó ...
etc.

Though such forms are still rare, they are at least used ;)

E.g. ABN:
cé hé ar féidir dó a rá leis “Céard atá tú a dhéanamh?
(and who may say unto him, What doest thou? Eccl. 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Ceist faoi "á"
PostPosted: Sun 29 Jul 2018 4:52 pm 
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Posts: 545
FGB agus GGBC ag teacht salach ar a chéile... Cé a shamlódh é? Ach níl feidhm ar bith le 'hé'. Seo a leanas roinnt samplaí ó fhoinsí measartha iontaofa:

- Cé ar mhaith leis an rud luachmhar seo atá bainte amach againn ón AE a chaitheamh ar ais chuige? (Tuairisc.ie)
- Cé ar mhaith leis fanacht beo faoin talamh breis is sé mhí? (Beo)
- Cé ar mian leis dul ar neamh anois láithreach bonn? (Tearmann.com)
- Bean chéile gan cháim, cé ar féidir leis í a fháil? (ABN)
- Óir cé arb eol dó céard is maith don duine? (ABN)


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