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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Question
PostPosted: Sat 26 Dec 2015 6:46 pm 
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galaxyrocker wrote:
Generally the dialects that use lenited forms of the preposition do do so in all forms, as far as I'm aware. So if they use dhuit in the positive, they'll use it in the negative.


Yo, thanks, but the difference between the sentences was not purely positive versus negative. If you'll notice, I changed the nouns. I tried to make sentences that filled the criteria mentioned for the lenition of déag. I just added positive and negative to make them less redundant. With that in mind, are they correct?
Also, unfortunately, I am definitely sure that the prepositional pronouns formed from do do not lenite everywhere. From what I've heard, it seems to be lenited under the same circumstances as the word déag, but I wanted to confirm that. Is this not a thing in an CO?

galaxyrocker wrote:
Also, do here is a preposition (or prepositional pronoun when inflected)

Wow that's embarrassing. That was obviously my mistake. Super awkward on my part, bro

galaxyrocker wrote:
You go with the gender of the noun. Since cat is masculine, you'd use é


Wait, I swear the last time I asked, people said that with words like seo and sin the gender of the noun didn't matter, but the class of the noun mattered and I thought they said that animals were assumed feminine. If it were determined by the gender of the noun, the correct sentence would have been An í seo an chógaslann? but everyone agreed in telling me that it should be An é seo an chógaslann? (which is what I had heard originally).
Or wait, maybe I'm mixing this up. Maybe you're saying it would be "An cat í seo?" because it's just a generic unknown animal but "An é seo do chat?" because it's obvious that it actually is a cat and thus masculine? Or maybe even it should be "An cat é seo?" because the pronoun is following the noun so thus construed to be related? Perhaps it would be "An í seo cat nó madra?" because it is uncertain? Or maybe "An é seo cat nó madra?" because both are masculine nouns and it is assumed to be one or the other and not indeterminate? Could you ever even say "Cad í seo?"

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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Question
PostPosted: Sun 27 Dec 2015 9:24 pm 
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Cúmhaí wrote:
Yo, thanks, but the difference between the sentences was not purely positive versus negative. If you'll notice, I changed the nouns. I tried to make sentences that filled the criteria mentioned for the lenition of déag. I just added positive and negative to make them less redundant. With that in mind, are they correct?
Also, unfortunately, I am definitely sure that the prepositional pronouns formed from do do not lenite everywhere. From what I've heard, it seems to be lenited under the same circumstances as the word déag, but I wanted to confirm that. Is this not a thing in an CO?


As far as I know, it's never lentied in the CO. It'd just always be duit or dom, etc. Connemara is the main one that lenites (and whether they're lenited or not is generally consistent, and doesn't depend on the noun), though Corca Dhuibhne seems to as well

Quote:
Wait, I swear the last time I asked, people said that with words like seo and sin the gender of the noun didn't matter, but the class of the noun mattered and I thought they said that animals were assumed feminine. If it were determined by the gender of the noun, the correct sentence would have been An í seo an chógaslann? but everyone agreed in telling me that it should be An é seo an chógaslann? (which is what I had heard originally).
Or wait, maybe I'm mixing this up. Maybe you're saying it would be "An cat í seo?" because it's just a generic unknown animal but "An é seo do chat?" because it's obvious that it actually is a cat and thus masculine? Or maybe even it should be "An cat é seo?" because the pronoun is following the noun so thus construed to be related? Perhaps it would be "An í seo cat nó madra?" because it is uncertain? Or maybe "An é seo cat nó madra?" because both are masculine nouns and it is assumed to be one or the other and not indeterminate? Could you ever even say "Cad í seo?"


[/quote]

A(n/r) cat é seo. It all goes back to whichever noun class the object is. In this case, cat is masculine, so you use é

As to Cad í seo... perhaps? But I feel cad é seo would be much more common, given é's use as the default pronoun.


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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Question
PostPosted: Mon 28 Dec 2015 10:27 am 
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Cúmhaí wrote:
rom what I've heard, it seems to be lenited under the same circumstances as the word déag, but I wanted to confirm that. Is this not a thing in an CO?


In CO do, dom, duit, etc. are never lenited.
In Conamara, Cois Fharraige (I can't tell for other dialects) dom, duit, etc. are lenited whereever possible and whereever lenited versions are easier to pronounce than d-.
Often d- or dh- is totally mute. (pronounced 'om, 'uit etc.)
The pure preposition do is rather pronounced like go there, i.e. with a g- (obviously: do -> dho -> go).
Lenition of dom, duit, etc. is especially the case after vowels and slender consonants - resembling the lenition of déag.
But the restrictions mentioned for déag (only singular nouns ending in a vowel, etc.) doesn't exist in the case of dom, duit. Here it is a pure phonological form of lenition, just because an unaccented prepositional pronoun tends to be pronounced weak.


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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Question
PostPosted: Tue 29 Dec 2015 6:46 pm 
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galaxyrocker wrote:
whether they're lenited or not is generally consistent, and doesn't depend on the noun


Labhrás wrote:
But the restrictions mentioned for déag (only singular nouns ending in a vowel, etc.) doesn't exist in the case of dom, duit. Here it is a pure phonological form of lenition, just because an unaccented prepositional pronoun tends to be pronounced weak.


Go raibh maith agaibh. Sorry, galaxyrocker I bet that was what you were saying originally and I just didn't get what you meant by always lenited.

Rosetta Stone claims to be Munster Irish, so I'm guessing by bhur responses it is probably speakers from Cois Fharraige then? I'm guessing it's a regional thing why tapa is pronounced like tapaidh, and I've heard stressing the second syllable of agam, agat, etc. is also a regional indicator. I always consult the Munster pronunciation online but had assumed it was people from the Ring Gaeltacht. People have told me it's direly important to be very specific about dialect, so could y'all help me confirm? I can answer any other questions if I haven't provided enough information.
:GRMA:

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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Question
PostPosted: Thu 31 Dec 2015 7:19 am 
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Guys I have another question. Could someone please help me explain :

Bhí mé i mo pháiste nuair a bhí mé i mo chónaí sa Róimh. (actual sentence)

I don't get what is going on with the tenses here. Shouldn't it be:

Bhínn i mo pháiste nuair a bhínn i mo chónaí sa Róimh (my invention)

?? I just don't get it. Here is another one:

Bhíodh rothair againn nuair a bhíomar inár gcónaí i bPáras (actual sentence)

This mixture of tenses just seems crazy to me. WHY?

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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Question
PostPosted: Thu 31 Dec 2015 12:30 pm 
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Cúmhaí wrote:
Guys I have another question. Could someone please help me explain :

Bhí mé i mo pháiste nuair a bhí mé i mo chónaí sa Róimh. (actual sentence)

I don't get what is going on with the tenses here. Shouldn't it be:

Bhínn i mo pháiste nuair a bhínn i mo chónaí sa Róimh (my invention)

?? I just don't get it. Here is another one:

Bhíodh rothair againn nuair a bhíomar inár gcónaí i bPáras (actual sentence)

This mixture of tenses just seems crazy to me. WHY?


"Bí i do"-phrases usually doesn't occur only in a brief moment, e.g. at 7 am on Saint Patrick's Day 1994.
They last, of course.
So there is no need to emphasise this duration by using habitual tenses.
You don't say "Bím i mo" but "Tá mé i mo" etc.

Bhíodh rothair againn nuair a bhíomar inár gcónaí i bPáras = We used to have a bike as we were living in Paris.
(The same in English, by the way: You wouldn't say that you "used to live in Paris")


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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Question
PostPosted: Sat 02 Jan 2016 5:05 pm 
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Okay so bí i do anything including chónaí have a continuous meaning like bí ag so something like Táim ag bheith i mo chónaí or similar would be meaningless and redundant. Gotcha. So now tell me if these are right:

He tends not to listen when I am speaking.
Ní bhíonn sé ag éisteacht nuair atáim ag caint
He doesn't listen when I'm speaking.
Ní éisteann sé nuair atáim ag caint
He didn't tend to listen when I was speaking.
Ní bhíodh sé ag éisteacht nuair a bhí mé ag caint
He didn't listen to me when I was speaking.
Níor éist sé nuair a bhí mé ag caint

What confuses me is I am more used to a simple perfect - imperfect system like Tajik than this perfect - habitual - continuous system that you've suggested might be the same as English.

What about this?

We didn't have a car when we used to have bikes
Ní bhíodh gluaisteán againn nuair a bhíodh rothairse againn.

Or should one be ní raibh? Or should "agus" be used??

What about this
I used to always listen to you but I don't anymore
D'éistínn i gcónaí leat ach ní éistim leat níos mó.

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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Question
PostPosted: Sat 02 Jan 2016 5:09 pm 
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And one more I forgot to mention, why this:

An mbíodh sacar á imirt agat nuair a bhí tú i do chailín?
Did you used to [be ]play[ing] soccer when you were a girl?

I would have expected
An imríteá sacar nuair a bhí tú i do chailín?

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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Question
PostPosted: Mon 04 Jan 2016 12:20 am 
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This is a third question. Sorry I'm asking faster than y'all can get back to me

I noticed

ar an dochtúir
But
ar an nGaeilge

Is this because the /ng/ is not the same as /n/ so the preceding n in an doesn't negate it?

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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Question
PostPosted: Mon 04 Jan 2016 3:15 am 
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I'm not sure I understood your question.
Anyway, Connachta and Ulster Irish have "ar a' d...".
Munster has "ar a' nd..."

Connachta has "ar a' nGaeilge"
Munster : ar a' nGaelainn
Ulster: ar a' Ghaeilg

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