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PostPosted: Sat 22 Aug 2015 1:40 pm 
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I would like to know what would be the right one for a tattoo.
In the internet are some explanations... I would like to have it in Irish and not the English one.

"Éirinn go brách" should be the older form.
The standard in the present should be: "Éire go brách".

I would like to match it with "Érinn go breá" what should come from "Tá Éirinn go breá". Why there is a difference between Érinn and Éirinn?

I have a shamrock with only "Éire" in it. So...it would be better to use Éire instead of Éirinn. Or not?

And sound that ridiculous for a German to wear it?

Go raibh ma agat in advance for responses. :)


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PostPosted: Sat 22 Aug 2015 5:06 pm 
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Zurni wrote:
I would like to know what would be the right one for a tattoo.
In the internet are some explanations... I would like to have it in Irish and not the English one.

"Éirinn go brách" should be the older form.
The standard in the present should be: "Éire go brách".

I would like to match it with "Érinn go breá" what should come from "Tá Éirinn go breá". Why there is a difference between Érinn and Éirinn?

I have a shamrock with only "Éire" in it. So...it would be better to use Éire instead of Éirinn. Or not?

And sound that ridiculous for a German to wear it?

Go raibh ma agat in advance for responses. :)


The standard form would be "Éire go brách"

In Munster, however, the old dative forms are often used in the nominative, which would make it "Éirinn go brách"

I don't think it's a matter of one form being older...it's just that one form is more common in a particular dialect. Either is correct.

As far as the other part goes, I'm not sure you can omit the "tá" from the sentence (also, be careful! It's "Éirinn," not "Érinn"). In any case, I'd read that as "Ireland is fine."

Wait for more input, please.

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Sat 22 Aug 2015 9:59 pm 
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Zurni wrote:
I would like to know what would be the right one for a tattoo.
In the internet are some explanations... I would like to have it in Irish and not the English one.

"Éirinn go brách" should be the older form.
The standard in the present should be: "Éire go brách".

... Why there is a difference between Érinn and Éirinn?


Ériu is the oldest nominative.
Éire was originally the Accusative, now the nom. in some dialects.
Éirinn is the dative (now, the nom. in some dialects).
Éireann is the genitive.

Redwolf wrote:
I don't think it's a matter of one form being older...it's just that one form is more common in a particular dialect. Either is correct.


:yes: , though Éire go brách is the more 'conservative; of the two.

Zurni wrote:
I would like to match it with "Érinn go breá" what should come from "Tá Éirinn go breá".


What do you mean here exactly?

Redwolf wrote:

The standard form would be "Éire go brách"

In Munster, however, the old dative forms are often used in the nominative, which would make it "Éirinn go brách"


I've only ever heard Éire for the nom. in Munster Irish, however I have read on daltaí that Éirinn is sometimes used in Kerry. I think Éirinn is the standard variation in Connachta.

While all the dialects use nouns that were originally dative as the nominative today, Munster Irish has arguably the most conservative case system. The dative singular is still intact for most feminine nouns of the second and 5th declension, e.g. ar an mboin 'on the cow', don mhnaoi 'for the woman' ag an bhfuinneoig 'at the window'. In the last 50 years however, the use of the dative has declined rapidly in Munster Irish, as parents have failed to pass on the language to their children and the language the children learn in school doesn't recognise the dative distinction. On the other hand, the least conservative dialect is Connaught Irish, as the singular dative of the nouns of the second declension has almost entirely replaced the older nominative, e.g. an fhuinneoig 'the window', an láimh 'the hand'.

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Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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PostPosted: Sun 23 Aug 2015 6:54 am 
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An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
In the last 50 years however, the use of the dative has declined rapidly in Munster Irish, as parents have failed to pass on the language to their children and the language the children learn in school doesn't recognise the dative distinction. On the other hand, the least conservative dialect is Connaught Irish, as the singular dative of the nouns of the second declension has almost entirely replaced the older nominative, e.g. an fhuinneoig 'the window', an láimh 'the hand'.


I find that very sad. The same is happening with Conamara Irish. I was taught the Caighdeánach in school. I was told I can't write "láimh" etc as it was wrong.


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PostPosted: Sun 23 Aug 2015 8:58 am 
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Go raibh maith agait!

An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
Zurni wrote:
I would like to match it with "Érinn go breá" what should come from "Tá Éirinn go breá".


What do you mean here exactly?


I would like to combine it:

"Éire go bréa, Éire go brách"
or
Éirinn go bréa, Éire go brách.

So...Ireland is fine, Ireland forever.

Another possibility would be:
"Éire go hálainn, Éire go brách" or "Éire go hiontach, Éire go brách" ( I have no idea to, if I use the right form of hiontach or álainn) :(
"wonderful" or "beautiful" would fit here for me anyway.... :)


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PostPosted: Thu 27 Aug 2015 9:18 am 
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*push*
Any more opinions?

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Zurni


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PostPosted: Thu 27 Aug 2015 11:37 pm 
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Quote:
I would like to combine it:
"Éire go bréa, Éire go brách"
or
Éirinn go bréa, Éire go brách.
So...Ireland is fine, Ireland forever.
Another possibility would be:
"Éire go hálainn, Éire go brách" or "Éire go hiontach, Éire go brách" ( I have no idea to, if I use the right form of hiontach or álainn) :(
"wonderful" or "beautiful" would fit here for me anyway

Zurni wrote:
*push*
Any more opinions?

A few comments:
-- I'd stick to "Éirinn ..., Éirinn ..." or "Éire ..., Éire ..." to avoid having people wonder why you mixed the forms.
-- It's "... go breá" [accent (fada) on the "a"].
-- "Éire go hálainn" and "Éire go hiontach" are just as logical as the other forms, but are unusual, so they might seem strange.

Otherwise, what you have looks fine.

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I'm not a native (or entirely fluent) speaker, so be sure to wait for confirmations/corrections, especially for tattoos.


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PostPosted: Fri 28 Aug 2015 6:04 am 
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Go raibh maith agat, CaoimhínSF...

I think I will decide me for:

Éire go breá, Éire go brách

Because I already have a shamrock with "Éire" in it... :)

Image

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Zurni


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PostPosted: Fri 28 Aug 2015 10:44 am 
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I have a book on my shelf...no HAD one, a re-print of a 19th century copy of a 500 year-old work, and I recall 'Erin co deo ('Éirinn go deo') somewhere in it (Ireland forever)

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