Hi everyone.

I'm looking for information and opinions about the word "gasra" which I believe is the plural form of the word "garsún" meaning, boy. It stands to reason then that "gasra" means a group of boys, or "lads" maybe.

I'm looking at it in the context of the military. In Ireland the military use it to represent a specifically numbered body of "men" so, while in general it might mean a group, in the military the word is used in more specific situations depending on the number of soldiers in the group. This may have come about because at the time the word was decided upon, there were no women in the military. However, in the modern day it's led my buddies and I to a number of gender and equality debates based around the word, and I certainly wouldn't want to be insulting any of our service women.

My question is this, can it only refer to a group of men? Or, has it become something more of a unisex word in the modern day, like the word for a nurse, banaltra. As I understand it, the prefix ban- refers to a woman, but of course, we now have plenty of male nurses.

When I look it up in the Collins dictionary, it has its own entry, and translates simply as "a group" with no mention of gender. The fact that it has its own entry, and doesn't just refer back to "garsún" also hints that it's become a word in its own right to me.

Another example might be the English word, "lads" which can be used to refer to a mixed gender group, but the singular of which, "lad," is still traditionally reserved for a male.

I'd appreciate any advice on the matter. For my part, I imagine it can be used to refer to a mixed gender group, but I'd love to hear your more enlightened opinions.

Le meas,
Ade.

According to FGB, it means "a band of young warriors" (sex not specified) OR "a band of men (soldiers). It can also mean a group of people, or a branch of an organization (again, sex not specified). If it is derived from "garsún" (or, perhaps more likely, "gasúr"), it would seem that it has a fairly unisex connotation.

"Gasúr" is used to refer to children in general, and not necessarily specifically to boys.

FWIW, I think that "Banaltra" has given way to "Altra" as the unisex term for a nurse.

Wait for more.

Redwolf

Garsún refers mostly to a boy in his teens, I think, and is mostly used in Munster. It may even have derived from French garcon.

0.02€

"Gasúr" means "child" in Connachta, and "boy" in Ulster.
The Ulster plural is "gasraí". I guess the Connachta plural is "gasúir". (a Bhríd? bhfuil seo ceart?)

"Garsún" is the Munster form (actually it's a French loanword, from "garçon", which means "boy").
I guess the plural of garsún is garsúin.

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne

Tá an t-eolas sin ana-shimiúl. Go raibh míle maith agaibh.

Táim níos mó suim agam sa focal "gasra," ná "garsún" chun na fíreanna a rá. 'Bhfuil a fhois ag aon duine níos mó fé sin?

A Red Wolf, do chualas fé "altra" roimh, ach níl a fhois agam an úsáideann daóine é. Nuair a bhíos sa schoil, ní raibh ach "banaltra" úsáidte. Cloisim "banaltra" de ghná fós i gcómhrá. GRMA as an t-eolas.

Ade.

Tá Redwolf ceart tagann gasra ón bhfocal Seanghaeilge gasrad.Ar mhiste leat tóraíocht sa suíomh eDil a bhfuil leagan den fhoclóir Seanghaeilge ann .

According to McBain's etymological dictionary, gasradh (gasraidh in Scottish Gaelic), meaning a band of youths or sometimes a "rabble", comes from the Old Irish word gas, meaning a military servant, which was itself borrowed from the Welsh gwas. Interestingly, McBain says that the English word "vassal" comes from the same source. So, gasra[í] is of a different origin from the word garsún, which it has already been pointed out was borrowed from the French garçon (or whatever its Norman French form was).

Since it's very common for letters to get transposed in everyday speech (the "s" and the "r" reversing in this case), it's understandable that two words so close in sound, and also roughly in meaning, may have gotten confused with one another and given rise to all sorts of dialectical variants. An interesting example of such transposition is the name of the English city, Exeter. It's named for the river Exe which it straddles, but the river was originally the Eske (related to the Irish word uisge, meaning "water"). The exact same transposition often happens in Black English in America, where words like "ask" have their letters transposed and turn into "ax" (as in "I axed him to do it").

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I'm not a native (or entirely fluent) speaker, so be sure to wait for confirmations/corrections, especially for tattoos.

Brilliant, thanks a lot.



Fuair me "gasrad" ar eDIL (G 49), dúirt sé "young warriors, young men; later used of soldiers in general without reference to age." Suimiúil, ach níl a fhois agam cad is brí le sin maidir leis an chineál.

Fuair mé é seo cómh maith, "días gasraide na ngel-lám 'the white-handed soldier-pair (of husband and wife?)" Tá se sin dóchúil.

Ar aon nós, tá suim agam san úsáid sa nua-ghaelainn níos mo ná sean.

All of this seems to confirm my suspicion that "gasra" can be used to refer to a unisex group.

Very much appreciated.

What about the word - macra ? - as in Macra na Feirme

Probably from Mac(c)rad (macradh), as in "the boyhood troop" in the Ulster Cycle.

eDIL gives:
(a) sons (coll.), children, offspring
(b) generally boys, youths