It is I again, the one who is learning Irish with Rosetta Stone.

I have recently learned how to say that "none of X are Y"
But it seems fishy to me.

Example:
Ní dath buí atá ar aon cheann de na liathróidí.
I interpreted this as "It is not the color yellow that is on one of the balls" even though I know it should be "None of the balls is yellow."

I would have expected one of the following:
Níl aon cheann de na liathróidí buí. [or would this mean "One of the balls is not yellow."??]
Ní dath buí atá ar na liathróidí ar fad. [It is not the color yellow that is on all of the balls.]
Níl dath buí ar aon cheann de na liathróidí. [The color yellow is not on one of the balls.]

Where am I wrong? And why is that right??

This one seemed right to me:
"Níl aon duine de na páistí ina suí."

But this one again seemed weird:
"Ní as páipéar atá aon cheann de na cupáin déanta."

Thank you in advanced for your explanation!

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ЯГОН ТОҶИК НЕСТ ИНҶО???

I agree.



I'd say "de pháipéar" (actually "do phéipeár" in Donegal Irish).

Ní do phéipeár a rinneadh cionn ar bith do na cupaí.
/ Ní de pháipéar a rinneadh aon cheann de na cupáin.

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne

Hi Cúmhaí,

With respect, there's almost too much in your post to respond to, but I'll try to respond to at least part of it.

My first advice would be not to get too worked up about the right way to say something. In any language, there are often several, several correct ways of saying the same thing. For example, I don't see too much wrong with most of the sentences in your post. The exception for me would be:

"Ní dath buí atá ar na liathróidí ar fad."

This would translate as "All of the balls are not yellow". I mean, it gets the meaning across, but in both languages, it seems a bit unnatural. The other ways seemed to better communicate the message.

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Another thing that I think you might find useful is an understanding of a feature of Irish called "fronting". This is where something is brought to the front of a sentence to place emphasis on it. Consider the difference between the following:

"Téim ann go minic"
"Is minic a théim ann"

I would argue that in the second one, "minic" is more emphatically expressed. They are both right, but there is a shade of meaning between them. You said that the following seemed strange to you:

"Ní as páipéar atá aon cheann de na cupáin déanta."

To me, it seems as though the speaker is trying to emphasis that they are not made out of PAPER. The same thing could be expressed by the following, but without this emphasis:

"Níl aon cheann de na cupáin déanta as páipéar."

Let me know if that has helped you somewhat,

Briain.

"Ní dath buí atá ar aon cheann de na liathróidí."
Strictly speaking it's not wrong, but is is an unnatural way to say it.
But I suppose RS are following the words/terms they have already introduced.
"Yellow is not a colour on any of the balls. " Sounds odd in English too.

I'd say - Níl dath buí ar aon cheann/ceachtar de na liathróidí.

Maybe Rosetta Stone haven't introduced "níl" yet.

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It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.
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Thank you Bhriain that was actually very helpful.



But see, they have!! And that's just what has confused me!
What I don't understand about their versions of these sentences is :
Why is there "ní"?!?
I apologize if this is completely off since I've just inferred this from context, but I thought "ní" was for things that were like existential or whatever and "níl" was for everything else. In all the sentences with things being made of whatever and things being a certain colour so far, I have seen "tá, níl, an bhfuil" I have never seen "is" or "ní" ! Why do they suddenly appear here?

I get the feeling I must have misunderstood something important XD

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ЯГОН ТОҶИК НЕСТ ИНҶО???

Maybe I should think of it as
It is not (like existentially or whatever) the colour yellow that is (like not existentially) on any one of the balls.

Can "aon" then have the meaning of any?

or am I still parsing this wrong

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ЯГОН ТОҶИК НЕСТ ИНҶО???

Or what about:

Ní hé an dath buí atá ar na liathróidí ar fad
or
Ní hé an dath buí atá ar aon cheann de na liathróidí

That seems nicer to me?!


Sorry everything is about what feels right since in RS they never explain. it's all about those feelings.


Okay I'll be quiet now

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ЯГОН ТОҶИК НЕСТ ИНҶО???

Yes, ní is a copula form here. You are right that the copula is (is, ní, ba) is used in certain situations while the verb bí (tá, níl, bhí) is used in other.
But that is not the point here.
Obviously Rosetta Stone hasn't taught "fronting" yet because that is what it's all about.
The copula is used for fronting.

Tá teach ann becomes Teach atá ann.
Níl teach ann becomes Ní teach atá ann.
Níl dath buí ar an liathróid becomes Ní dath buí atá ar an liathróid.
It is rather pointless to translate literally: "It's not yellow color that is on the ball". It actually means: "The ball is not YELLOW"

Níl dath buí ar aon cheann de na liathróidí = None of the balls is yellow. (neutral sentence)
Ní dath buí atá ar aon cheann de na liathróidí = None of the balls is YELLOW. (yellow color emphasized by fronting)

Ah....
You see, Rosetta Stone will never teach fronting. It never covers grammar, only ways to say things and new vocabulary. That's what I need you for!

Go raibh maith agaibh!

or in the spirit of the last lesson I did (all, none, some)
Go raibh maith agaibhse ar fad!

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ЯГОН ТОҶИК НЕСТ ИНҶО???

And yet...

Why front "dath buí" rather than just "buí"? Dath (as the noun) is the head of the phrase, so natirally picks up the emphasis. Clearly the balls have a colour, and they don't have a yellow something-that's-not-a-colour, because that makes no sense, so surely it should be more "Yellow isn't the colour of the balls"...?

NB: I know practically no Irish, so might be very wrong.

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A language belongs to its native speakers, and when you speak it, you are a guest in their homes.
If you are not a good guest, you have no right to complain about receiving poor hospitality.