Hello all!

I have recently started learning Irish. I have been using various resources to try and grasp some concepts of it, and it feels like it's going somewhat slower than what I feel like it should. I figured out the main barrier I am facing right now is pronunciation and spelling. I found this page that seems to make some sense of it:

http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/gaeilge/donnch ... ishsp.html

However, I'm not sure how accurate some of it is, and thought maybe I could get some input on it (ie Is this a good page to use for reference?).

I look at some words and think to myself, "I'm getting it!" Then I will happen upon a word like the following, hear how it's pronounced, and start questioning if I will ever be able to grasp the language:

http://www.forvo.com/word/oighear/#ga

In case anyone is wondering, I have been using a combination of Duolingo, Bitesize, Word a Day, Forvo, Abair, and sometimes Google Translate (but only as cross-reference checking, really). There are a couple of others, but I don't use them as often.

Anyway, is that first page I linked generally right on target? And what are some ways that others have worked on spelling and pronunciation?

The first link is a good start. It doesn't quite explain broad/slender distinction to my liking, but I also feel that's something one must train their ear to hear, and that first link seems good enough for beginners on a quick perusal. If you're using Forvo, make sure you find a native speaker, as non-native speakers (and heritage speakers who claim to be native) have a bad habit of using English phonetics in Irish. I suggest looking for Bríd, who also frequents these forums. She's a native from the west coast of Ireland.

As to Duolingo, I honestly say don't trust it's pronunciation, and there's a few things that really strike me as wrong (meaning, direct translations from English instead of Irish equivalents). However, it's probably the best free (legal) way to start learning Irish. But then, I'm one of the biggest advocates for changing it on the site. I don't have any experience with Bitesize, so maybe someone else can comment on it. Abair is good, for being a robot, so I'd also trust that. And really, never trust Google translate; it's notoriously bad for Irish.

There's a slender /r´/ at the end, almost resembling a /d´/
Bríd rather says "oighir" /air´/ than "oighear" /air/

Can you recommend a place that might go a bit more in-depth about broad and slender? I feel like this is pretty much key for me right now, as I feel too embarrassed to even try typing out the shortest of sentences in Irish because I can't pronounce them correctly.

Do you mean spelling or the sounds or both?

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__̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.___

The problem with a these 'guides' is that they fall into two camps -a) Irish = English and b) assume that everything is going on at once (that is, all broad consonants are lip rounded or all slender ones have a 'y-glide' after them, which is not the case. It's much more complex than that)

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__̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.___

They're not taking dialects into account, really, either. For example, I most definitely wouldn't pronounce a short "u" as in the English "put," or the "o" in "tobar" as "toe." Not sure, actually, if that's a dialect difference or just plain wrong...I don't recall ever hearing someone pronounce "rud" as "rood" or "tobar" as "TOE-bur."

Redwolf

Rounded: buí, puí, faoi, bhuí, maoi
(likely) more neutral: mae, pae; pá

Spread but no glide: fí, bí etc
Spread with y-glide: fiú etc

Set palatal: ciú/cé, dí/diú, giú/gí, tiubh/tí, liú/lí, niú/ní, ngiú/ngí, rí
Set velar(ised): broad versions of above


Basically, the labial sounds get a glide in some places and not in others, but stops and 'spirants' are set when it comes to vowels

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__̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.___

The way that I have understood what I have read, is that the spelling of the words pretty much tell you how to pronounce them. I have read something along these lines in a couple of places now (from the first link in the OP):

"Irish spelling, although complicated, is actually much more regular than English spelling (!)."

So in my head, and I may be incorrect in this assumption but really hope I'm not (haha), is that if the spelling is much more regular in Irish, then perhaps I could look at each word as it's own phonetic. Like in a standard dictionary it will list the word, and immediately following it will be the pronunciation. But in the case of Irish, the word includes the phonetic... this is my assumption, anyway. Would that be correct, or am I living a pipe dream?

Well, in theory, BUT (!), not always in practice, as:

a) some words have changed over time (eireaball -->ruball)
b) the 'standard' seems to have been made clumsy in parts (buailimid when buailimíd is nore normal)
c) in actual speech some sounds cross-polarise to make them easier to say (so 'páirtí' is said as if it were kinda like 'páreaití' (tho that looks funny on paper)
d) vowels can lengthen or diphthong before l, n, r, m (and maybe ng, I'm not sure), so 'timpiste' becomes 'tímpiste', 'poll' becomes 'paull' etc
e) glides can become the main vowel. I can't think of a word that has become set this way, but you can see in the difference between 'crann' ('tree') and 'crainn' ('trees') how they could be said as 'crann' and 'cruinn' respectively
f) some sounds have dropped out
g) some verbal morphology is written like it was centuries ago, so for example the base word + stem buailfeadh is said like it were 'b(h)uailiú' or 'b(h)uaileach' while in speech with se/sí/sibh and siad bhuailfeadh sé is like wuailheait se (I don't know every dialect however)
g) some words are old or were made up so it might not be clear how they sound (according to some people here)

My advice to you would be to learn 'rules' for things like when h becomes slender ch, when slender r becomes broad and so on and apply the Mayo and Donegal way of reading the consonants and you should be ok

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__̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.___