Okay, I have just completed a dictionary experiment using the word "focal." I am currently writing a review of an Irish dictionary I am using, in which I discuss the challenges of making your way around an Irish dictionary when you don't know much Irish.

Today, for example, as part of a grammar exercise, I had to translate the phrase "the meaning of the words" into Irish. I ended up with "bhfocal" for the genitive plural (that constellation of consonants is quite a sight!), and then wondered how a total neophyte would fare trying to find the meaning of that form without first knowing some Irish grammar.

1. Google Translate: instantly told me bhfocal meant "word." At first I was pleased, but I guess it should have told me it meant "of words"? Can it mean anything else? I guess in "os cionn na bhfocal sin," it would translate just as "words"? But never "word," as Google claimed, right? (Yes, I know Google Trashlate is a scorned resource on here, but at least I, pretending for my experiment to be even more of a newcomer than I am, got something out of it, which was not the case in #3 or 4 below.)

2. Pota Focal: I searched on "bhfocal" and got an explanation of "focal," plus tons of examples using all the forms of "focal," including "bhfocal." That was thoroughly helpful. A gold star for Pota Focal!

3. http://www.irishdictionary.ie: did not know what I wanted it to do with "bhfocal." Gave me nothing. I typed in "focal" and this was interesting: all of the usage examples, of which there were quite a few, some of them oddly long, used the form "focal." There was no "focail," no "bhfocal," etc.--nothing but "focal" in the illustrations. That seems strange! Also, can anyone tell me why so many of the examples are longish extracts from what appear to be governmental or military-related texts?

4. Collins Pocket Irish Dictionary (print edition): as I expected, I had to look under "focal," but there I found two examples of usage in which "focal" was lenited (I am very excited to know the word "lenition" and intend to use it prolifically in the coming weeks).

For a total newcomer with no idea about lenition and other mutations, Pota Focal wins. But Google Translate came in second, since it at least would have pointed me in the sort-of-right direction.

GRMA.

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Brand new Irish learner inclined to ask questions. Writer, Words & Worlds of New York, a website about language-learning. http://www.ellenjovin.com

Have you looked at the (Irish only) dictionary An Foclóir Beag ? Somewhere in the resources section (here) there's a page (in English) which explains how to use it and explains the grammatical terms you'll find there.

Yes, thank you, Franc, I have been there. I originally found it totally over my head. I will try again soon.

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Brand new Irish learner inclined to ask questions. Writer, Words & Worlds of New York, a website about language-learning. http://www.ellenjovin.com

It's on the Nualéargais website - Using An Foclóir Beag Online - Fóclóirí (dictionaries)
http://nualeargais.ie/foghlaim/afb/

Franc, that will be helpful - thank you - but my head still explodes when I look at the contents of those sample entries. I need something gentler right now.

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Brand new Irish learner inclined to ask questions. Writer, Words & Worlds of New York, a website about language-learning. http://www.ellenjovin.com

One thing that needs to be pointed out is that Irish always retains the basic form of the word in the spelling even if lenition or eclipsis occurs, at least for the singular. For example, focal can become fhocal by lenition or bhfocal by eclipsis, but the word focal is still there. Other changes do occur at the ends of words but they affect dictionary work much less than the initial mutations.

Contrast that with a more phonetic language like Welsh where a word like fan could simply be the word for "van", or it could be mutated from either ban or man.

By the way, Ellen, have you been through the excellent explanations for beginners offered by our resident wombat in Cúinne an Whombat - Wombat's Guide to Irish yet? There are a lot of excellent learning tips and shortcuts explained there for many aspects of grammar and spelling - well worth perusing.

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).

I don't know if this is something you might find useful, but give it a look:

http://www.bitesizeirishgaelic.com/blog ... dictionary

(And no, I'm not trying to spam the board with my blog posts, but this seems like something she may find useful, as did the one on Google "trashlate").

Redwolf

Edited to fix link

Thank you for these suggestions! I have visited them today.

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Brand new Irish learner inclined to ask questions. Writer, Words & Worlds of New York, a website about language-learning. http://www.ellenjovin.com