Need to have old letter translated

tiomluasocein · **Joined:** Thu 01 Sep 2011 11:36 pm **Posts:** 687

Could it be that the author is Diarmaid Ruadh ua Muireadhaigh?

He is mentioned in the following two links, the same two lists but with differing perspectives: the first as a druid and the second as a poet (but, being ignorant of the relationship between poets and druids and whether or not they were considered the same thing, I can make no further comment)

http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?2 ... ISH-DRUIDS

http://www.archive.org/stream/primerofi ... e_djvu.txt

Also, in the book:
The Politics of Language in Ireland, 1366-1922 by Dr. Tony Crowley, he is featured as follows: (I think they give an example of his poetry)

Diarmuid Mac Muiredhaigh Cecinti [Diarmaid Mac Muireadhaigh Sang This], anon., late
seventeenth century [seems a little early for the poet here]

I ordered a very cheap copy of it from Amazon for my own purposes so when I get it I'll post what it says unless someone else has a copy or can order one and get it before I do. Mine may take up to a month. :rolleyes:

camburn25 · **Joined:** Thu 22 Sep 2011 1:33 am **Posts:** 15

Again, thanks to you both for your interest in this project. If you need more scans let me know and I'll see what I can do. I'll try and get to the local university early next week to revisit the citation for the poem from the RIA. I'll post it as soon as I have it. I don't think the poem carried on.

C. Uí Loideáin · **Joined:** Thu 15 Sep 2011 8:48 am **Posts:** 43

There are still a few gaps (perhaps someone else can help fill them) but here's what I make of it. Blue letters/words are where I'm unsure:

Quote:

Díarmaid rúadh ó Muireadhaigh cct
Don tsagart ó fáolan, diompógh on eaglais
fhíor agus do phós bean, agus do ghabh ris an saoghal.

Go tapuidh glúais as súan an tsaoghail gan sgíth
sna peacaidh is cnúas do fúaruis le do mhnaoi
crathaidh is fúathaidh uaibh go léir a mían
nó am brathláoi an lúain monúair ba baeghlach dhíbh

A bharrín tsúairc achuainse cléire is dráoidhigh
do cheannaighis duais ar dhúantaibh dáora dhíol
a Bhranaigh bhúadhaigh budh stuama gáois is gnáoi
feachaidhe súas is glúais do dheara ag cáoi

A shearc croidhe súad sa ghuaire air fhéile arís
ashtaruidhe is cruaidhe anúaigneas bhreithre críosd
mo aisge uaibh gach gúais anma éur, a láoigh
stad di súas sna búail go héug air mhnáoi

Na mealladh snúadh a grúaidhi sa bhéil mar ghrís
sna sgathaidh dúal ar shnúadh na gréine ag luidhe
ag casadh súas na ccúacha fáe na bruích
sna ndearc ríghin snúadhghlas súaimhneach máerdha mín

Na bhfa_____ snúadhchailce do sgúab ón ghéis a lí
sna gilchiche fúara rug búaidh ar néimh an áoil
a dreach cáoin cúanna chuaidh os céill aríomh
breathnaigh is smúain gur luaithreadh e gan bhrígh

A pheacaidh thruaigh gan túar sdo ghéuga críon
dearcaidh súas an túan do ceusadh thríbh
aithrighe bhúan libh gluais as phréimh do chroidhe
is frascháoi crúaidh ar ghúais na péine shíor

Maslaidh is buail an trúaill bhocht áesda chláon
is mallaigh an súansa ort is guais gach láe ar do _aoi
is gar dhibh fúacht san úaigh anéan bhrat lín
is tathaighe chruaidh ag slúaghaibh fáebhrach dáoil.

Nach aithne a thrúaill do chráidh go leir an díosg
mar gadaigheadh uait do shnúadh do ghné is do bhrígh
snach feas dáoibh uain no úair an éaga ag luighe
an cleasaidh clúanach úallach bréagach baoith. etc.

and here's how I'd translate it:
Diarmaid Rua Ó Muireadhaigh composed this.
To the priest Ó Faolan who turned from the true church
and married a woman, and who went with the world.

Rouse yourself quickly from the world's slumber without delay
and the sins and the dowry you got with your wife
shake from you, repudiate completely her desire
or on the Judgment Day, alas! it will be dangerous for you.

O virtuous paragon, O face of clergy and learning,
you earned reward for your strenuous verses.
Victorious O'Byrne* who was steady in wisdom and face,
look up, and set your face to lament.

Dear learned heart, you who are a second Guaire for generosity,**
strictest scholar in the solitude of Christ's words,
my request of you is, to prevent danger to your soul (??)
rise up from her, and until your death never approach a woman.

Be not enticed by the appearance of her cheeks, of her mouth like a live coal,
of the curly locks like the sun setting
when the cuckoos rise in flight from the bank,
of her peaceful, stately, grey-eyed, steady gaze,

of the chalk-white _______ that brushed their tint from the swan,
of the cool bright breast surpassing lime in its brilliance.
Her smooth comely face, always beyond understanding (??)
behold and reflect that it is insignificant dust.

Poor heedless sinner with your withered limbs,
look up at the Lamb who was tormented because of you,
stir lasting repentance from the root of your heart
and copious lament for fear of eternal pain.

Revile and strike down the wretched wicked old flesh
and curse this slumber that's on you with danger each day at your ____
Soon you will be cold in the grave in one sheet together
with sore experience of ravenous hordes of beetles.

Isn't it plain, O flesh completely afflicted by barrenness,
how your complexion, your looks, your energy were stolen from you,
and you don't know the day nor the hour that death lies in wait,
that foolish, lying, arrogant, deceitful trickster.

* This appellation may be completely metaphorical, or it may have some genealogical basis. The O'Byrnes (na Branaigh) were the great ruling family of Leinster before the arrival of the Normans; the O'Faolans a minor ruling family. I'm no genealogist but there would certainly have been links between the two families - old history of course by the time our man Díarmaid was writing but the sort of thing that isn't forgotten.

** Guaire was a king of Connacht legendary for his generosity. See Keating's Foras Feasa ar Éirinn, volume 2, for a charming account.

So there you are. There are still quite a few gaps and uncertainties, and I'll be grateful if someone else can offer some insight.

Scooby · **Joined:** Tue 06 Sep 2011 7:18 pm **Posts:** 576

That's just amazing work. Even comparing the original with your transcription I can't see how you got it! Even the word Na looks more like Ina or something else to me.

tiomluasocein · **Joined:** Thu 01 Sep 2011 11:36 pm **Posts:** 687

Fantastic! I tried working on this and got through the first page but had way too many gaps and uncertainties. It would have taken weeks and even then no guarantee. Glad you could do it.

One thing I can see is the "crrísd" in the third stanza, end of the second line. It seems it should be "críosd" but I may be wrong. In the fifth stanza, second sentence, couldn't really figure it out but I'll keep trying. Seventh stanza, at the end of the second line, "ar do haoi"? Doesn't make much sense.

Also, I think the O'Byrne that is being referred to may be Fiach mac Aodh Ó Broin (Fiach McHugh O'Byrne) but again I may be wrong.

What kills me is the "etc." at the end of the poem. Like "You'll be sent to hell, fire and brimstone, and so on . . . yawn.

Breandán · **Posted:** Sat 08 Oct 2011 4:40 am

timluascein wrote:

Seventh stanza, at the end of the second line, "ar do haoi"? Doesn't make much sense.

Since it is after do, h doesn't make any sense, but n could. My guess is that it might be a mis-spelling (or older or alternative spelling) of naí, which FGB gives as 1. Infant, babe. 2. Young, innocent girl.

It's in Dinneen as naoidhe, so it might be quite a leap, though.

All I can think is that the writer started to write naoidhe then pressed for space opted to shorten thw -idhe to -í. (An ordinary i wouldn't have had a dot on it at all.)

And then there's the problem that the writer probably doesn't think the girl is innocent. :LOL:

C. Uí Loideáin · **Joined:** Thu 15 Sep 2011 8:48 am **Posts:** 43

timluascein wrote:

Fantastic! I tried working on this and got through the first page but had way too many gaps and uncertainties. It would have taken weeks and even then no guarantee. Glad you could do it.

One thing I can see is the "crrísd" in the third stanza, end of the second line. It seems it should be "críosd" but I may be wrong. In the fifth stanza, second sentence, couldn't really figure it out but I'll keep trying. Seventh stanza, at the end of the second line, "ar do haoi"? Doesn't make much sense.

Also, I think the O'Byrne that is being referred to may be Fiach mac Aodh Ó Broin (Fiach McHugh O'Byrne) but again I may be wrong.

What kills me is the "etc." at the end of the poem. Like "You'll be sent to hell, fire and brimstone, and so on . . . yawn.

You're absolutely right about 'críosd'. I'll edit that now.

Now what about the next line? On reexamination it's clearly 'gach' rather than 'gan' and I wonder if the last bit of it isn't the vocative 'a laoigh' (literally 'my calf', figuratively 'my dear friend'). If so we'd have 'gach guais anma ___, a laoigh' where I still have no idea what the missing word is. It looks as though it could be 'éur' (= aor?) but that doesn't make sense either grammatically or semantically. (Whatever it is, note that it does need an é-sound in it for the rhyme.)

"A Bhranaigh bhuadhaigh" is in the vocative, so it's presumably addressed to whoever the rest of the poem is addressed to, i.e. the recalcitrant priest. Why the author would call him Ó Broin if his name was Ó Faolan is the only question. This isn't entirely unusual though, given the high status of the family - it's like calling someone a "prince" who isn't, but is from a fine old family (possibly with some royal connections): poetic licence and a bit of flattery thrown in.

Transcription aside, I think I need to brush up my old spellings and revisit the English translation once I've done so. :oops:

Especially since 'ná' isn't written with a long vowel here, it can be hard to tell e.g. 'na peacuidh' (='sin not') from 'na peacaidh' (='the sins').

tiomluasocein · **Joined:** Thu 01 Sep 2011 11:36 pm **Posts:** 687

Regardless, you've done great work. I am really interested in this sort of stuff myself but am still at a low level.

Breandán, I think you may be right about "naoi". Also, that "na bhfa?píp" (it looks like). I was wondering, since it has "píp" in it that it isn't a figurative word for feathers. "fadphíp" The "d" also appears to have a line and a dot over it so maybe a combined form?

I will still look at and consider some of the missing pieces. I'm curious as to what comes up in the next fews days or weeks.

C. Uí Loideáin · **Joined:** Thu 15 Sep 2011 8:48 am **Posts:** 43

Breandán wrote:

timluascein wrote:

Seventh stanza, at the end of the second line, "ar do haoi"? Doesn't make much sense.

Since it is after do, h doesn't make any sense, but n could. My guess is that it might be a mis-spelling (or older or alternative spelling) of naí, which FGB gives as 1. Infant, babe. 2. Young, innocent girl.

It's in Dinneen as naoidhe, so it might be quite a leap, though.

All I can think is that the writer started to write naoidhe then pressed for space opted to shorten thw -idhe to -í. (An ordinary i wouldn't have had a dot on it at all.)

And then there's the problem that the writer probably doesn't think the girl is innocent. :LOL:

Well, it's a theory, but I must say it doesn't seem to me terribly likely - the penman is quite careful about silent letters (e.g. spelling out 'luighe' when he clearly intends it to be pronounced 'luí') and as you say it doesn't fit the sense. A 'naoidhe' would really only be an infant or a young girl; besides, if the poet meant to refer to the woman, he would surely have used 'ar do mhnaoi', which fits the rhyme perfectly. So the 'naoidhe' in question, if there is one, must be a child. However, no child of the union has been hinted at and in fact it's strongly suggested in the final verse that the priest is getting on in years, flesh 'tormented completely by barrenness' as he puts it.

I'm afraid I don't have a more plausible alternative to offer though.

Unless - it's just possible - could it be 'aoi', with the 'h' an odd grammatical interpolation? I'm thinking of the compound preposition 'ar aoi' (usually 'arae' nowadays)... if that were in the second person it would be 'ar d'aoi'... 'ar do haoi' is a scribal leap away but not an unimaginable one.

... only it still doesn't quite make sense in context, does it? 'danger every day on account of you'? No, no, it's back to the drawing board, I'm afraid.

Breandán · **Posted:** Sun 09 Oct 2011 11:45 pm

C. Uí Loideáin wrote:

Well, it's a theory, but I must say it doesn't seem to me terribly likely ... No, no, it's back to the drawing board, I'm afraid.

Oh, well, better considered and discounted than passed over and missed. :razz:

But if the penman is so pedantic, why a dot on an i that shouldn't have one?

Forum rules

Need to have old letter translated

Who is online