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PostPosted: Mon 31 Dec 2012 5:48 pm 
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A lot of Irish people would say "He asked me did I know her" without correcting themselves, it would be the correct way to say as far as they are concerned.

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Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


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PostPosted: Mon 31 Dec 2012 5:54 pm 
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So it's right in their dialect :)

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Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
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PostPosted: Mon 31 Dec 2012 6:21 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
So it's right in their dialect :)

One problem is defining 'standard English'. Teachers of English ought to know their stuff, but on minor points they will probably be guided by assumptions about what is right.

In (parts of?) England: He was just sat there doing nothing.
In Ireland: He was just sitting there doing nothing.

In (parts of?) England: The work needs doing.
In Ireland: The work needs to be done.

So, I know that I'm just referring to differences in dialect in the examples above, but the people who use these examples may not be aware that they are being dialectal. On top of that, standard English is a changing concept. We used to be told in school to say 'You and I' instead of 'You and me'. Now it is considered pedantic to use this structure (maybe even unnatural and therefore wrong).

I may have this a bit backwards, but the word 'shall' which is now a bit archaic but sometimes used for emphasis, used to be in standard grammar books as the third person singular: I will, you will, he shall. (or maybe it was: I shall, you shall, he will).

Here is a reference to it:
http://www.haverford.edu/classics/cours ... l_will.pdf


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PostPosted: Mon 31 Dec 2012 6:28 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
So it's right in their dialect :)
That's right Lughaidh, but there's a lot of snobbery about these things in English. For example, if children say "I do be in school" they are likely to be corrected by a schoolteacher and told to say "I attend school." But the same teacher might say "I do be in school" when talking to friends.

My mother was always on at me to say "pardon?" instead of "what?" But nobody in my family or neighbourhood ever used the word "pardon" not even my mother.

Do French speakers have the same attitude about dialects?

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PostPosted: Mon 31 Dec 2012 6:30 pm 
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Lots of Irish people say, 'I seen this' or 'I done that', but I don't think it is considered correct - yet anyway!

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Is foghlaimeoir mé. I am a learner. DEFINITELY wait for others to confirm and/or improve.
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PostPosted: Mon 31 Dec 2012 8:44 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm not certain, but I think it comes from the verb beir, not iompair, as in duine a bhreith abhaile (to bear/bring someone home) or as in Beir leat abhaile! (Get gone home!" -- i.e. "bear yourself off home").



cá háit a n-abartar sin?


Níl a fhios agam, but it's in FGB, and the point isn't really whether anyone now says that in Ireland. It's whether it was said 3-4 centuries ago, such that it had a chance to make its way into English (in some places). Obsolete expressions or phraseology often live on in some locations, especially colonies or ex-colonies (not just the US as a former British colony -- in a linguistic sense, Scotland was a Gaelic colony long ago).

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PostPosted: Mon 31 Dec 2012 10:48 pm 
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Saoirse wrote:
Lots of Irish people say, 'I seen this' or 'I done that', but I don't think it is considered correct - yet anyway!


That's common in the Inland Northwest dialect I grew up with as well. Most of the older people would say "I seen it." In fact, it's so common, it was part of an Olympia Beer commercial in the 1970s ("I seen 'em!").

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Mon 31 Dec 2012 10:51 pm 
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A lot of people get confused about the "you and me" vs. "you and I" thing because they were incorrectly corrected by their mothers, who thought that "you and me" was always wrong (I got that from my mom, that's for sure). Actually, both are correct, depending on context:

I will go to the store/You and I will go to the store.

That belongs to me/That belongs to you and me.

All you have to do is lose the "you" to know which is correct in which context.

Redwolf the pedantic copy editor. ;)


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PostPosted: Mon 31 Dec 2012 11:12 pm 
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Redwolf wrote:
A lot of people get confused about the "you and me" vs. "you and I" thing because they were incorrectly corrected by their mothers, who thought that "you and me" was always wrong (I got that from my mom, that's for sure). Actually, both are correct, depending on context:

I will go to the store/You and I will go to the store.

That belongs to me/That belongs to you and me.

All you have to do is lose the "you" to know which is correct in which context.

Redwolf the pedantic copy editor. ;)

True, and the "correct" order in Irish is actually "me and you and him and her, etc.", i.e., first person, second person, third person, with the disjunctive pronouns mise agus tusa agus eisean agus ise, but I don't know any dialect that does that in English. :dhera:

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WARNING: Intermediate speaker - await further opinions, corrections and adjustments before acting on my advice.
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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PostPosted: Tue 01 Jan 2013 12:04 am 
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Dhá cheann eile ar phraghas cinn amháin:

"You're reading that book two weeks now and you haven't it finished yet"


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