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PostPosted: Sun 10 Dec 2017 1:47 am 
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Hello all,

My name is Bruce and I am from Australia. I am new to this forum and am need of some wise counsel.

I am 53 years old and my family has Irish heritage. My 20 year old daughter has wanted to see Ireland for as long as I remember and we started planing with her, suggesting bus tours and the like, to hang out with other young ones. To my surprise and delight, she asked me to accompany her instead. How could I refuse?

Now she has upped the ante and wants to get a tattoo whilst in Ireland. She wants the following words tattooed in Gaelic:

"A Father's love is eternal"

So, now we are both getting this tattoo and we want an accurate translation. Is there anybody out there who is able to help?

Best Regards to all,

Bruce


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Dec 2017 12:59 pm 
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This is my suggestion, but please wait for the others to confirm or to correct it. It's a bit long so perhaps there might be shorter version of it.

Is síoraí atá grá an t-athar. (I wouldn't put in a capital A for athair/father here, because in Irish that might mean that you were talking about God the Father)


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Dec 2017 10:03 pm 
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There was a very similar request not long ago on the forum, which you can check out at this link:
http://www.irishlanguageforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=4291&hilit=love+eternal

I gave one option there, but I think the final one suggested by Breandán was definitely the best one offered, because it reversed the structure of the expression to sound better in Irish.
Shortening it to fit what you want, you'd have:

Is buan an grá atá ag athair [enlarged to make the accents readily visible]
A father's love is eternal [more literally" "It is eternal, the love that a father has"]

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I'm not a native (or entirely fluent) speaker, so be sure to wait for confirmations/corrections, especially for tattoos.


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec 2017 11:29 pm 
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CaoimhínSF wrote:
There was a very similar request not long ago on the forum, which you can check out at this link:
http://www.irishlanguageforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=4291&hilit=love+eternal

I gave one option there, but I think the final one suggested by Breandán was definitely the best one offered, because it reversed the structure of the expression to sound better in Irish.
Shortening it to fit what you want, you'd have:

Is buan an grá atá ag athair [enlarged to make the accents readily visible]
A father's love is eternal [more literally" "It is eternal, the love that a father has"]


I wonder if a more concise way to say this would be:

Is buan [é] grá an athar

?

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Dec 2017 11:17 pm 
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Quote:
I wonder if a more concise way to say this would be:
Is buan [é] grá an athar

In the context of this request, I think you're right, Red. The other request was longer and arguably needed the "love that a father has" construction, but this one doesn't really need it. I think the "é" is needed, though: Is buan é grá an athar

One caveat is that the expression could be read in a religious sense, with "athar" understood as referring to God, although not capitalizing it does help indicate that that isn't what's meant.

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I'm not a native (or entirely fluent) speaker, so be sure to wait for confirmations/corrections, especially for tattoos.


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PostPosted: Tue 19 Dec 2017 9:44 pm 
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Redwolf wrote:
Is buan [é] grá an athar


I think this is the best one regardless of length. But leave the ''é'' out, as this is fronting, not traditional copula, so unless I am mistaken it should not appear here.

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ЯГОН ТОҶИК НЕСТ ИНҶО???


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PostPosted: Wed 20 Dec 2017 11:15 am 
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Thank you everyone.

For the uneducated, this is difficult to understand. It is obviously a very complex language.

From what I have read, it appears that Is buan grá an athar is the correct translation? Is that correct?

Thank you all,

Bruce


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PostPosted: Wed 20 Dec 2017 11:17 am 
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Apologies for my last post, I didn't bold the entire sentence correctly.

Is buan é grá an athar


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PostPosted: Wed 20 Dec 2017 12:53 pm 
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Cúmhaí wrote:
Redwolf wrote:
Is buan [é] grá an athar


I think this is the best one regardless of length. But leave the ''é'' out, as this is fronting, not traditional copula, so unless I am mistaken it should not appear here.


No, without "atá" it is not a kind of fronting but a "normal" copula sentence.
But copula sentences with a predicative adjective aren't very "normal" in contemp. irish.
Except for special purposes (incl. fronting) they are rarely used.
But "buan" is used quite often with the copula. So this sentence is okay (as far as I can judge).

There is said* to be a difference in meaning between forms with an expletive pronoun like é or without é in copula sentences with adjectives as their predicate:
Is buan grá an athar = The love of the father is (generally) abiding.
Is buan é grá an athar =The (that) love of the father is (unusual) abiding.

* in older grammars


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PostPosted: Sun 14 Jan 2018 6:20 am 
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Thank you all for your patience. I am still trying to understand if I should include é or not.

Is buan é grá an athar

If this translation is 'The (that) love of the father is (unusual) abiding' as suggested by Labhrás, I think that fits my intended feel for the tattoo. That my love for my daughter is unique / unusual / uncommon...

But perhaps, for my daughter, her's would more accurately be Is buan grá an athar as it relates to the love of a father for a daughter = The love of the father is (generally) abiding. Dies this version fit better for a young lady than the other? Redwolf, apologies for being pedantic, but is there a subtle difference and perhaps one version is better for a Father and the other for a Daughter?

Once again, very grateful for everyone's time and thoughts.

Bruce


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