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 Post subject: Re: Baile an Sceilg
PostPosted: Sun 20 Aug 2017 8:07 pm 
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Cúmhaí wrote:
I would also point out that in Ó Dónaill there is supposedly a dialect form of Sceilg which is "scealg" and is masculine. Most likely what is going on here.

Scealg is an alternate form (from West Cork I think), but it's also Feminine with the same genitive "Sceillge", see Dineen's entry on it in his 1927 dictionary.

Baile an Sceilg, just doesn't seem to be grammatical and results from a confusion of forms of some form.

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 Post subject: Re: Baile an Sceilg
PostPosted: Mon 21 Aug 2017 2:41 pm 
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An Lon Dubh wrote:
Cúmhaí wrote:
I would also point out that in Ó Dónaill there is supposedly a dialect form of Sceilg which is "scealg" and is masculine. Most likely what is going on here.

Scealg is an alternate form (from West Cork I think), but it's also Feminine with the same genitive "Sceillge", see Dineen's entry on it in his 1927 dictionary.

Baile an Sceilg, just doesn't seem to be grammatical and results from a confusion of forms of some form.


Baile na Sceilge is grammatically an appositive genitive. ("The town of the Crag")
Baile an Sceilg is grammatically an appositive nominative. ("the Town the Crag")
An appositive nominative is possible in Irish (e.g. "an tAthair Ó Broin") though usually not in situations like place names.
In some languages both are used (e.g. City of London vs. New York City). In other languages only a nominative is possible (e.g. German: Stadt Hamburg).
Genitive is losing ground in Irish. So, maybe even here?


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 Post subject: Re: Baile an Sceilg
PostPosted: Mon 21 Aug 2017 3:13 pm 
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I don't think (purely a theory) it's from wakening of the genitive for two reasons:

(a) The original form was a plural, so it'd weaken into "Baile na Scealaga"

(b) People were already using "Baile an Sceilg" in 1920s, but those people had full usage of the genitive in their Irish, saying "X na Sceilge" in other situations, even situations referring to events in the town.

I genuinely don't know what caused it, but I'd like to find out.

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